J, My question to you is has your FS2004 performance increased/decreased since you went to the on-board sound? Some say that the stand alone audio card frees up CPU time and thus more speed and or smoother video. I am currently running the on-board audio. (ASUS P4P800 Motherboard)Terry

Can't really see much of a difference, but then I wasn't really looking for a change in performance either. Seems to be about what it was, however.J

It really depends on the quality of the on-board sound chip installed, the IRQ assigned, CPU/Buss speeds of the particular computer, and what other peripherals are on the MOBO.The load end, everything on the MOBO, probably won't fair as well.W. Sieffert

If you have a typical onboard sound card and can't tell the difference between onboard sound and a dedicated sound card it's time to look to the rest of your system, or your ears. Maybe your speakers are blown.The only advantage of onboard sound is convenience. There are some mobo's that have high quality onboard sound but these are specialists tools. For the average users motherboard needs, the sound chip will typically be AC97 derived. It's a six year old technology and even allowing for later drivers will not support most of the more modern features and technologies included as standard in most games. The resources consumed by an onboard sound card can cripple CPU-intensive applications (like FS) even with the sound on low settings.A dedicated soundcard offers better quality audio and a separate system resource requirement, leaving the CPU to do what it's best at, processing cycles not squeaks, roars and rumbles. Even a CHEAP sound card will be better than expensive onboard sound chips. There is one thing to say about the system resources issue though - the typical sound card doesn't install JUST the driver to make your gaming experience or audio playback sound better, it also often throws in loads of useless junk like extra CD players, functions you'll never use and readme files in 27 languages with flash demos and sound samples of #### Guatemalan chipmunks. Especially with SoundBlaster cards, where Creative seem to think the value of the product is entirely dependant on the tonnage of useless software it can install on your hard drive. I have expained why you SHOULD use SoundBlaster cards in another thread, it involves NOT installing ANY Creative product but using free open-source drivers from here:http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/index.php?skip=1These are audiophile-quality drivers with extreme customisation, but they achieve great results for gamers and simmers - no useless gimmickry, just a fully adjustable driver set, minimal resource consumption and full tech supprt for a dedicated forum - and ongoing driver development. If you want to try the difference, just create a System Restore point before uninstalling the Creative stuff, then install the KX driver stuff. Then just look at the free space on your hard drive. That 200meg saving is just from removing unnecessary toys and junk that Creative want you to have. Whether that includes spyware? Who can say. Then just listen to the difference. You will `see` increased stereo spatial separation in 2.0 environments, massively increase separation in 2.1 and in surround sound you could be sitting in the middle of a war zone. Oh, and you can have your DirectX sound settings, and in-game FS settings at max without problems. None of that sound-acceleration-reduced-from-max rubbish.Allcott

I think you're being a bit misleading. Creative driver sets allow you to custom install only the utilities you want, or none at all (driver only). Readme's and support files can simply be deleted.Last time I looked the KX drivers did not support EAX. Is this still true?

Even the driver is 60 meg too big. Who knows why? The default installation configuration installs lots of mostly useless rubbish onto the hard drive. Far from being misleading, I was simply being brief. You do not have full control over what is installed via the Creative installation options. With KX Project drivers you can even individually add or remove feature sets you do or don't want. Opt IN rather than opt OUT.The KX drivers do not currently offer full EAX support. This is part of the ongoing program, which will add EAX 1.0-3.0 support, AC3 Passthrough for Live (10k1-based) cards and 24/96 ASIO Support for Audigy2-based boards. EAX is not supported in FS2004 and the effect of EAX is better controlled and replicated by manipulating the KX drivers, as you have individual control of any and all presets - surround sound IS supported, better than any Creative driver. It's only the reverb aspect of EAX that isn't picked up on, and its perfectly OK to leave EAX active on those games that need it. But that's really beyond the scope of a Flight Simulator board. Why not ask in the KX forum?The evolution of these independent drivers is what makes this most interesting. Creatives last driver update for the Audigy 2 actually included a driver that was more than 12 months old, and they have long since abandoned driver support for earlier cards. But like I said, the only way is to try them for yourself. Take careful note of the hard drive space before removing all the Creative stuff and you can see for yourself how much space is saved. Monitor the system resources too, see how much Creative drivers suck up. As for sound processing tasks within FS, again, try it for yourself. With a system restore point you can always put the Creative drivers back if you don't like what you hear. Seems like most are converted by the experience. Allcott

"Just curious if there is any compelling reason these days to purchase a sound card w/ all the motherboards these days having integrated sound."1. Sound quality. You get much better quality when using a deidicated soundcard, depending, of courrse on the qualiy of the soundcard. Generally however, even the cheapest soundcards provide better sound quality than the integrated sound.Many motherboards with integrated sound use cheap codecs which results in very poor sound quality. That includes the NForce2 audio. My Epox 8RDA+ board featured the Nvidia DSP, but a cheap, crappy Realtek codec which resulted in very "muddy" bass and lots of distortion noticable. Granted, this is not a big deal with the $20 "desktop speakers" but for me it is a big deal.2. CPU Usage. Often, you'll get better performance with a dedicated soundcard. Some integrated solutions are better than others but it's really only with the NForce2 integrated audio that you get the same performance as with a dedicated soundcard.

>1. Sound quality. You get much better quality when using a>deidicated soundcard,Maybe for Hi-Fi music or anything more demanding than FS9. But for something like FS9 I can't hear any difference. And I have pretty good speaker (Boston Acoustics). But of course I don't have Pavaroti's ears ...Michael J.

The range of sound quality in FS is dependant on a number of factors - not least of which is whether you've been sucked into the tweakers `helpful` advice to turn down the sound acceleration in dxdiag. Imagine a Ferrari with the top three ratios taken out of the gearbox and you get the picture.Allcott

J, ThanksTerry

Just curious if there is any compelling reason these days to purchase a sound card w/ all the motherboards these days having integrated sound. I recently yanked my Creative SB Live! 5.1 out of my box and switched to the onboard sound and I must say, I can't hear one lick of difference. The only difference as I see it is that the sound is less garbled and my system hangs less often :) I've never ever had a good experience with Creative sound cards - they are the most finicky piece of hardware ever made...since they first rolled out their 8-bit Sound Blaster. Are they really necessary? Am I just not hearing the "SoundBlaster difference"? Is there even any point to the average gamer buying a sound card these days?J