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Aircraft down in North Carolina

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I just read on CNN that an Air Midwest (US Air Commuter) Beech 19** went down on liftoff in N. Carolina, SOB 19.

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Local news here reporting no survivors. Appears to have hit a hanger on landing.Ed Green, KCLTegreen1@carolina.rr.com

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Yeah, really sad news. We ( the US ) had a good year last year with no major air crashes; let's face it, it can be dangerous.

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It was likely: #1 wind shear after takeoff with a nose high attitude, creating a stall situation as it was clear but windy.#2 With a full load of passengers and likely bags, it was damn near Gross I imaagine. Could have been out of CG, which would have led to the inability to recover from a stall situation or engine out situation, particularly if below VMC.#3 Engine out on rotation or soon after, which would explain the loop, level off (attempt to recover), and then nose down attitude, as the wing roots stalled.Check out the biggest pilot's forum inthe U.S. @ www.flightinfo.com for more hypothesis.ChristopherP4 1.8768 ram 80 gig hardriveVisiontek Ti4 4600CH yoke/pedals19" inch monitor-Soundblaster PCI 512Win XPInstrument rated ASEL - 190 hoursAOPALawyerPilots Bar AssociationFAA Summer Associate"Men without dreams are never free, twas thus this way and thus will ever be."

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On a small plane like the 1900D I'd bet my bottom dollar on weight and balance being out of whack (aft of CG), and/or engine out. At that load, he would have a very slim chance of success, as the P and W would pull that thing off to the side from asymmetrical before the captain could say "whoops". The 1900D is basically a stretched King Air 350 with a slightly higher shaft horsepower. Same type of thing was done to create the CRJ, they simply extended the Bombardier Challenger fuselage and added a couple more ponies in the back - not many though. Hat's why unfortunately, POSKY's CRJ model while visually correct is way to powerfull on the climb. Pilot's barely report 2000 fpm on some climbs at gross. Better to use the Chin ERJ with reversers air file.Ok a little off topic, I will head out now.Happy flying!>Christopher >>>>P4 1.8 >768 ram >80 gig hardrive >Visiontek Ti4 4600 >CH yoke/pedals >19" inch monitor- >Soundblaster PCI 512 >Win XP >>Instrument rated ASEL - 190 hours >AOPA >LawyerPilots Bar Association >FAA Summer Associate >>"Men without dreams are never free, twas thus this way and >thus will ever be."

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Yeah the cg could have been aft, but I used to work for Air Midwest as a ramper for Air Midwest in Kansas City and we never had a plane leave over weight. Came close a few times and had a lot of passengers ###### because we took their bags off and sent them on the next flight, but I know that the pilots told us well before the flight was even loading the passengers how many bags were allowed to be onboard. Things may be different in CLT though. Anyone happen to know the tail number of the plane yet?Allen "CMSUpilot"

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Just found the tail number: N233YVI'm just about positive that I loaded this plane a time or two. Feels weird knowing that I used to crawl all over and inside this plane and now it's gone.

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15,000 hours on plane- 21,000 cycles - Mesa took deliv. in August of 96-

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Man, my apologies on typing and spelling, I whizzed through that. In particular hypothesis and ponies?:) :) :)

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Yea its a sad day my father and i just talked a few minutes ago he was a pilot for usair express based out of charlotte for 8yrs i lived there most of my life,anyways he told me it looked like to him that they lost a engine on takeoff and the autofeather didnt kick in like it should and they couldn't control it.I just wanted to add I was watching the charlotte news and a couple of witness that saw the plane go down said that one of the engine's started to sputter and then it banked left,rolled and then hit the corner of the hangar.

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Allen,I second what you say. I used to work for mesaba, northwest airlink, we loaded and unloaded saab340s. I was a ramp supervisor. The flight crews were very good about finding cg problems and overweight problems. I can't tell you haw many times we had the saab on the tail stand and we had to remove passengers. At mesaba we removed passengers. very rarely we removed bags. I can remember pulling bags off a crj though, the crj being nose heavy as it is. Probably the most embaressing thing I ever did was put an avro rj85 out of cg.Another supervisor and myself were bored and decided to load an avro to help our people out. We assumed it would be a standard load, everything in bins three and four, near the tail. Plane taxis out, and crew calls back they are returning to the gate, out of cg, the load was supposed to be loaded in the front, bins one and two.Crew did some fast thinking and "upgraded" 16 passengers to first class. Moving them to first class cured the cg problem. I guess the passengers were happy :) All and all everything is just speculation now.Matt

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A sad day for all.One of the saddest things for me was, on top of the tragedy, the Tampa Tribune had to insert into their report, "There was no immediate indication of terrorism..." :-mad Have we lost all sense of reality, here? This, plus another crash of a CRJ in Turkey with 70-some aboard (according to the Tacoma News Tribune).Not a good way to start the new year...Rob D.

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Sounds like you may be right. A quote from a witness :""The plane was climbing too steep," said Witkege, 19, of Roanoke, Va. "I told her, 'It looks like that plane is not doing right.'"As they stopped to watch, he said, the plane moved into a twisting dive."

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I would caution everyone to take eyewitness accounts with a grain of salt. They frequently are wrong, contradict each other, and don't know what is "normal" in most aircraft situations.Tim13

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From the look of things sounds like the left engine went and they Vmc'd the airplane, at which it rolled/yawed into the dead engine. Who knows why they didn't maintain Vyse or Vxse (aft CG, pilot error by pitching too much or pushing the wrong rudder pedal, etc), hopefully the black box will tell. It wasn't too windy this morning at the time (they had 9-13kts of winds from the west so a x-wind pretty much).They took off on 18R and ended up just past rwy 5 at the hangar.Here is a link to a picture of the actual airplane.http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=18661

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