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Donstim

You might want to update your M.B. to your board's curr

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Hello All,While waiting for Mr. UPS to show up with my PowerLeap adapter and on-board 1.4 Ghz Celery, I thought that being it was a couple of years since updating my BIOS by flashing with the most up-to-date bin. file---well...I'm here to tell you that in just doing this yesterday, I received a ***MAJOR*** performance spike!On my Abit BM6 motherboard, I went from the BIOS version PQ, to the most current (on the ABIT site for my board) TZ. I run W98SE, with the most current MS patches and updates.What a difference...in both FS98 and FS2002Here's the data:Before: FS98 12-55 FPS mean average (all things--taxi to FL's)After BIOS Flashing: FS98 45-70 plus. Yep....Before: FS2002 3-15 Taxi to the FL's...After: Fs2002 7-22 Yep...After flashing...I set the new BIOS to exactly the same parameters that I had for the PQ BIOS version.That's important---all settings were returned to the previous.Bottom line---there could be a major hidden performance boost, system wide for you waiting in the most up-to-date BIOS version from your M.B. supplier.By the way...this is no 'perceived placebo effect'. The numbers don't lie. They are there.... I believe that I gave my machine-level code-------well....an enema, and 'cleaned things out'...LOLCheers!Mitch R.Mitch R.

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The numbers do reveal something odd.... I'm getting better performance on a P3/800, even when I dare to max my settings. As for FS98, fps were well above 80, all the time. FS2002 sees around 7fps if everything is maxed (with full AI and a detailed airport like LAX) and around 15fps at less detailed airports, going all the way up to an average of 40 or so in the flight levels (if I don't lock fps).I tend to prefer better fps, so I usually keep AI low or off, and that doubles fps across the board until I hit the flight levels, where the two fps figures tend to meet.Something else is happening on your system, that perhaps the BIOS upgrade is helping identify.I've had to replace BIOS's on enough customer flashed system's, that I recommend an upgrade only if a serious instability issue is identified. Even then, I suggest no one upgrade a BIOS without a UPS, and I instruct people to back up the original BIOS (a procedure usually buried in the upgrade docs).You didn't mention your graphics card or BIOS type (i.e. Phoenix, or Award, etc). It's possible the upgrade resolved some type of pipeline issue w/the graphics. Or, perhaps something related to the processor cache, which if disabled can really cripple performance. Still, your "new" performance seems low, even for FS98.

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I'm currently running with a Celery 500. So, the spike is quite impressive! I haven't installed the 1.4 yet. Still waiting...:)My BIOS is of the AWARD family.My graphics card is a GForce 2 DDR 32 Meg. Nothing exotic, but it really does the job. My BIOS AGP aperture is set at 64 megs. I found that to be the best ratio to my 256 megs of SDR-100 memory. My cache's are both enabled, as was when running the PQ version. Truly, no settings have been altered between the PQ and the now; TZ. That's why I felt I had to post this find. :)Cheers!Mitch

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Ahhh... 500MHZ That does sound good then, and quite in line with what I'd expect.I'm also with you on the 64 meg AGP app. I've tried all sorts of combinations, from off all the way to 128megs. 64 Megs seems to work best.I had the Award Bios, and one upgrade was released for it. But it had no impact on my system's performance, and it removed some options for clocking faster CPU's. So I restored my backup and have been running with the original bios in the 4 'odd years I've had my Iwill BD100+ MB. Can't believe it's been that long since I built my system, but since building I replaced the HD, CPU, memory and graphics card... So it's really evolved over time!-John

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Hi John!Yepper's....I was stunned when after flashing, then going through my resets, and then firing up both 98 and 2002 to find my FPS's pretty well doubled. Geez..... The FPS's didn't do that dramatic leap via the other two BIOS upgrades!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is something hot about the TZ for the ABIT BM6...that is for sure.I don't normally flash (just to do it)---I flashed my board twice as new Celeron support was enacted. I actually would have not upgraded to the TZ if not for the fact that I was getting the 1.4 Ghz via the PowerLeap adapter. I figured...what the heck...and was surprised by the result, let me tell you!Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!:)Thanks for your replies...Cheers!Mitch'ster

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Respectfully Mitch, I have to disagree. Because of the inherent risks involved, it's never a good idea to update a BIOS unless there is a specific reason for doing so. Many people have trouble properly changing drivers, never mind flashing a BIOS. I would hope that folks don't now start to chase the FPS Holy Grail by randomly updating their BIOS merely hoping that some good will come of it. If there is a reason to take the risk then fine, go for the update. But to flash a BIOS based on only on some vauge hope for improvement isn't, IMHO, a good idea.Doug

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Doug, I absolutely agree with you. I was remiss in that I should have stated that only upgrade your BIOS if you are familiar with the procedure, AND, you feel confident to do so.But...I truly also would have been remiss to the FS community if I had kept this stunning performance spike to myself, at least for the Abit BM6 board.Damned if you do...damned if you don't scenario....Right?Cheers!Mitch R.

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Yep. The problem with a BIOS flash, as you well know, is that it sounds so simple and the result, should something go wrong, can be so disasterous. I just thought I'd throw it out. Ever run across an Albert Garland Robbins in your family tree? He's my "mystery" grandfather who lived in, or about, Tarrant county, Texas, in the early 1900's. I've spent years tying to find him.Doug Robbins

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Some of my relatives----still live up in that tree....lolI'll ask around, and check around. You never know. My roots are from Phoenix, Arizona. Any tree-hangers from that locale in your side of the forest?;)Cheers!Mitch Robbins

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Mitch,Don't know if you saw my late response to your questions regarding the BIOS settings I'm using with the PowerLeap adaptor. Here are the settings I'm using:CPU Operating Speed - User DefineTurbo Frequency - DisabledExternal Clock - 100 MHz (1/3)Multiplier Factor - 6.0SEL100/66# Signal - HighAGPCLK/CPUCLK - 1/1Speed Error Hold - Disabled (I had this enabled when I first installed the new Celeron, and it gave me an error on bootup every time (not surprising)).CPU Power Supply - User DefineCore Voltage - 1.50vGood luck!

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Nope, all Texas. But there's a reward out for Albert :-) .

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Hi Don,No...I didn't see this post! Thank you! I now printed it out. One question though...you are running the AGP CPUCLK at 1/1? Would that not mean that you were running your graphic sub-system at 100 mhz? One to one ratio of the FSB? I thought that you needed to be in spec at around 33 mhz. for the graphics bus. I would have thought a setting of 2/3.Please advise, Thank you, Don....and waiting to hear backMitch

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Don...I just visited the PowerLeap site and found this entry for the BM6:----------------------------------------------------------------PL-370/T 1.4GHz Tualatin Celeron 01-25-2002 Abit BM6 Must adjust AGP speed to 2/3, and disable speed error hold in SETUP.-----------------------------------------------------------------Don...you might be out of spec, or really straining your Graphics Bus at 1/1!!!

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Oops, you're right about that. I originally had it set at 2/3, but changed it to 1/1 after I reading your original post about upgrading your Celery (don't ask me why). I'm getting away with it with my GeForce4 Ti4200 for now, but it's probably not worth the risk. By the way, the AGP bus is designed to be run at 66 MHZ, not 33, hence the use of 2/3 as the divider for a 100 MHz CPU clock.Thanks for the catch, Mitch!

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Hi Don,Yeah...I said 33, and of course, with 2/3 it would be 66 MHz. My oversight!I just got the unit within the hour...but bummer...they didn't send along the silver thermal grease. I called Customer Support at PowerLeap and asked if I could run the adapter...but they advised that I should wait ANOTHER four to five days to get the grease tube.I don't know about you, but I have the 'I never get everything shipped and/or there is ONE critical screw missing from the package' curse.So here I sit with the 1.4 on the computer desk and I can only sip coffee and STARE AT $*(#((# thing, LOL. At least I retain my humor....sheesh...You?Cheers!Mitch

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Don, by the way---they set the core voltage to 1.55 as default. The actual 1.4 Celery has 1.5 stamped upon it. I wonder if keeping it at 1.55 would truly make a difference? I don't plan on overclocking it, so perhaps I might pin it down to the rated 1.5. The question is...even though you have your BIOS feeding the ZIF socket 1.5, notwithstanding---if the GUNNING Logic overrides the Soft Menu BIOS setting anyway...I wonder what voltage setting YOUR PowerLeap was set up as by default. It would be on your Quick Page Setup.I would be interested to know. Also, my PL370/T is a version II. What is yours?What really bums me out, is that it is a two second operation. I could have already been motoring along at almost three times my 500's capacity. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!Cheers!Mitch

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Mitch,Yes, the jumpers are set to a default core voltage of 1.55v, and 100 MHz FSB. I changed the jumpers to 1.50v/100 MHz FSB to match the Celeron specs. I also set the BIOS to deliver 1.50v, though I'm not sure if that matters since the PowerLeap adaptor should effectively "override" the BIOS voltage sent to it (as you noted.The Quick Start Guide says Rev 2.0, but I'm not sure whether that corresponds to the adaptor or the quick start guide.Don S.

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LOL, what luck. Actually, I think they're being overly conservative, but what they hey...if you're going to guarantee it, ya gotta make it fairly bulletproof. Note that their own quick start guide does not even instruct you to use the thermal grease. The only reference to it is in the troubleshooting tips where it says use of "thermal compound" is required IF overheating is suspected.I'll let you in on my secret. I am not using the thermal grease. And I haven't had any stability problems. Now, I'm not recommending that you not avail yourself of the magic stuff, but I think you can get away without it for a few days if you don't mind taking everything apart again to apply it. I fully intend to do so myself before summer, and summer temperatures, hit here.You had a good story, here's mine. I special ordered my adaptor separately from the CPU. Since we were going away for Christmas, I made sure to order both with enough lead time so that I could get them up and running before we left. Well, the boxes arrived with almost a week's lead time. I opened the PowerLeap box and all looked good. I opened the other box, and lo and behold, a 1.3 GHz Celeron, not a 1.4! I double-checked the order confirmation, and sure enough, somehow I had mis-clicked and ordered the 1.3 rather than the 1.4!Fortunately, I had not even so much as disturbed the shrink wrap on the box, so they agreed to exchange it for only the price difference, but I also ended up paying for shipping three times - once for the 1.3, another time to send it back, and again to get the 1.4 shipped. Needless to say, I also had to wait until our return after Christmas to install them.Then, as I went about the installation, I realized that I did not have the thermal grease. I went ahead and installed it anyway, then went down to a local retailer and bought some grease. Since the Celery comes with its own thermal pad, and overclockers have shown the chip to have a decent amount of headroom (and Intel chips are pretty well protected from being damaged by overheating, unlike some AMD chips), I figured there really wasn't risking too much. To use the grease properly, you're supposed to very thoroughly clean the heat sink and core surfaces, including removing the existing thermal pad.The installation didn't go without a hitch, though. I was also installing a new video card at the same time, against my better judgement to do one at a time. I finally traced the instability to an older Voodoo2 video card that had either finally given up the ghost, or that my power supply just didn't have enough juice to power any more. I almost bought a new power supply, but finally decided that the system is working great without the Voodoo2 card, I was only using it for one game (Falcon 4) that I hardly play anymore anyway, so I have it sitting on my desk right now.Don S.

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Geez...join the club....it ain't exclusive it appears, LOLOLOLOL!!!!Don...uh..er...looking at my 1.4, there doesn't appear to be a thermal pad on the beast. I have the clean metal exposed top of the core........also...I wonder truly, how much of a difference you would have seen in sim-mode by staying with the 1.3 and not getting the 1.4 at extra cost and hassle? The difference is only a hundred MHz, right? I wonder what that would garner as far as FPS/sim stat is concerned?I haven't even got my Green Machine installed and already I'm snoopin' around the used ads for a Pentium III Tut-cored 1.4Heck...why not? Keep one on hold for that rainy day.Oh...yesterday I bought SDR PC-133 CAS 2 7.5 second 256 meg times two, so to have 512 megs of system ram. I have right now 256 of 'black market who-knows-what' that actually hasn't ever given me trouble. I could use one of those sticks in the third slot, but after reading all the FAQ's of the Crucial site, found out that the system will revert to the SLOWEST CAS 3 over 2 if a stick of that is found! The 128 stick is CAS 3. So...I'll stick with 512 and if I can find a cheap (used) Pentium III 1.4, I am now armed with PC-133 that can do the job. :)I'll wait for the grease. The two sticks of memory should be here today or tomorrow...:)Life is good...and there is no need to revamp the entire system for FS2002!!!! I just spent er...let's see, $159.95 for the PowerLeap and CPU, and $82.00 for 512 of PC-133. I'd say I just scored KILLER to upgrade for so few...well...relative bucks---when compared to the other people getting P4's that still give out only FPS in the high 20's....sheesh!I can wait until the P4 is sliding down the curve... Evil pleasure, eh? BM6 and the great performing BX440 chip set.Don...HIGH FIVE, BUD....lol.Cheers!Mitch

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>Don...uh..er...looking at my 1.4, there doesn't appear to be >a thermal pad on the beast. I have the clean metal exposed >top of the core.... You got yours from PowerLeap, right? Maybe that's how they send 'em, so you can put the magic grease right on. (Acutally, in talking to them, I thought they did that, too.) Since I got mine retail, it had what a small pad on it.>....also...I wonder truly, how much of a difference you >would have seen in sim-mode by staying with the 1.3 and not >getting the 1.4 at extra cost and hassle? The difference is >only a hundred MHz, right? I wonder what that would garner >as far as FPS/sim stat is concerned? Yeah, and I though about it. But desire and perceived "need" won out over any logic. Mainly, I just felt stupid and didn't see how I could have made the mistake. The difference in cost between the 1.3 and 1.4 was only $5, so I can't see why anyone would even order the 1.3. As penance, I got to pay the extra shipping costs.>>Life is good...and there is no need to revamp the entire >system for FS2002!!!! I just spent er...let's see, >$159.95 for the PowerLeap and CPU, and $82.00 for 512 of >PC-133. I'd say I just scored KILLER to upgrade for so >few...well...relative bucks---when compared to the other >people getting P4's that still give out only FPS in the high >20's....sheesh! >Ain't that great?>I can wait until the P4 is sliding down the curve... Evil >pleasure, eh? BM6 and the great performing BX440 chip set. >Yessiree>Don...HIGH FIVE, BUD....lol. >And to you, too!Don

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