Hi Nick,"I bet you may be seeing some real differences."I'm sorry to say I am seeing some real differences and that's why I'm having to type this on my wife's PC I decided to give O&O ver. 8.5 a go and, for a time, all seemed well after carefully running through your detailed instructions and having fully optimized C: (20GB primary partition).Booting did seem faster and operations in Windows seemed generally nippier, although they weren't at all bad prior to using O&O.I then turned my attention to D: the second and only other partition on my main SATAII 250GB drive. This contains all my applications, games and simulations and currently the remaining free space on this partition is around 85GB.Everything seemed to be proceeding as it did while following your step-by step instructions for C: to the letter. Then came the reboot following the second COMPLETENAME defrag and this time the system took ages to return to the desktop with the following problems now being evident:1. I cannot access the Taskbar - there is a thin blue strip at the foot of the screen, but it won't pop up. I am able to right-click on this blue strip and select 'Properties'. Unchecking 'Auto-hide' makes no difference.2. Checking the Task Manager I see only 20 of 32 processes have loaded.3. Internet Explorer won't run, but I can access other programs via their shortcuts on the desktop. Outlook Express works and I've been able to download a few e-mails.During the boot I note that there is a long delay of 30+ seconds at the Windows screen. The Desktop background loads and then there is another long delay (with no hard drive activity) before the Desktop icons and system tray items load. I know, e.g., that AVG is loading as I see a popup telling me that the e-mail scanner is in an error state. Ati Tray Tools also loads as I hear adjustments to the speed of the GPU's fan.I have been able to reboot via the Task Manager and have run DSKCHKs on D: (okay) and C: The check on C: turned up the following issues:1. 3 messages appeared advising that it was deleting index entries (128, "")2. Then came a lengthy list of lines stating that it was Replacing invalid security id's with default security ids for each file. I watched it for a while and I think it terminated before rebooting around 40K + files.So, currently my system is barely useable with several processes failing to load with Windows and booting is now taking an unacceptable length of time to complete. I am assuming this is because Windows is now having difficulty locating certain files.At this point I should say that my PC is not a Dell, it's a self build and has given flawless service for the past couple of years.I would appreciate any thoughts you may have as to how I can extricate myself from this situation. Windows has not crashed so far and I have seen no BSODs.Windows does load into SAFE MODE, albeit very slowly, but the Taskbar problems remain the same. All the drivers seem to be loading normally up to and including Mup.sys so there ain't anything wrong with my HD.Would it be reasonable to try the Last Known Good Configuration or System Restore? How do I run the latter without access to my Programs menu or the Command line? I suspect these may be non-starters because it looks to me that O&O may have corrupted the MFT in some way.I would like to continue using O&O if it's at all possible, but if the only way out of this is to restore my system from backups then it would seem a bit pointless to pursue this route again.Fingers crossed you will have an answer.Regards,Mike

In this case I do not think it is an O&O issue and I will explain whyThere are thousands of people who use this process and out of all of the reports I have seen about O&O, not one of them that was a

Hi Nick,Thanks for responding so promptly.Your comments regarding the possibility of a bad sector are noted but, for the moment I am feeling a little sceptical as there has been no indication of any problems up till now and the drive performs flawlessly. SMART reporting (the system loads ActiveSmart each time Windows is loaded) has never revealed any issues other than occasional slight variation in the spinup time. I have quite a complex installation of software and none of it has thrown up any insurmountable problems prior to this O&O experience.I have the Recovery Console installed on C: but, interestingly enough, when I tried it failed to load and consequently, as you suggested, instead I have had to load it from my Slipstreamed XP SP2 installation disk.Chkdsk C: /R is running on C: as I type.Regards,Mike

Mike, I have to take things one at a timeSorry you are dealing with anything at all but at this point I am trying work out in my mind how a defrag when being run on a disk or partition completely away from Windows would destroy a Windows install. it does not compute.So I am looking at the possibilities that go with the description.If there is a sector issue, CHKDSK /R will find it and you may, or may not see messages on the screen that indicate Windows found a problem in a sector. I have had that scan tell me it was moving data after finding something and other times it posts nothing but fixed an issue anyway.I would like that scan run first and see if it does relay any information to you and see if it may repair the problem.I posted something in the other fourm I want you to try in with regards to the Task Bar and START menu when you get back in (if the issue is still present)Please let me know the results of that. At this point I can not say O&O is the culprit. I know Occam's Razor would suggest different but with computers and moving a huge amount of data around a platter, more than the application being run which can cause such a problem is at work. Windows ran fine after many passes on its own drive. I honestly can not see how Windows or the system files could have been damaged while the defrag ran on another partition, however I am researching right now none the less.

Hi Nick,I received one message:"CHKDSK found and fixed one or more errors on the volume"I rebooted, but am still faced with the stalling on the 'Welcome' screen followed by a prolonged delay before the desktop icons and background tasks load. This is what I'm seeing in Task Manager:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/185929.jpgAs you can see, I captured this using PaintShop Pro (which runs ok) and put it on a USB stick to bring through to my wife's PC.My previous attempts to resurrect the Taskbar (checking and unchecking 'Autohide') have only succeeded in obliterating it altogether - no blue strip anymore :(Explorer is running, as you can see from the image, and CTRL + ESC had no effect.Mike

Hi Nick,I have taken the Explorer query a bit further:First I 'Ended the Process' and the desktop icons promptly disappeared.I then restarted it and nothing happened for the best part of a couple of minutes, whereupon there was a resumption of HD activity followed quickly by the return of all the icons...but still no Taskbar.Mike

Ok MikeI am not finding any information pertaining to the issue you are experiencing. I have searched high and low and put out emails to sys admins. Everything I am finding and getting back about O&O is directly related to the SP1a/SP2 file problem where LBA is not correctly updated and none of the reports state anything other than a completely unbootable windows situation right after a defrag on the Windows partition. What I have asked you to check confirms some type of Windows system file damage so now the next steps must be considered.At this point I can not say what has happened for sure however if CHKDSK /R did find something and fix it, you may want to have that hard drive checked using the manufactures diagnostic utility. In example Seagate and Maxtor have utilities you can download which will make a bootable floppy or disk and have utilities for verifying a drive and it sectors. Those utilities are much better designed for letting you know if any issues were found and what it was. I would recommend at some point you do run a check with those utilities to at least confirm there is nothing wrong on the platter.in the mean time lets see if we can get you back up and running and you can check that later.Now, you asked about System Restore... question, you did not shut down system restore when running through my tweak list? If you did, that option is gone because it deleted the saved restore points.If you left it enabled you could do a system restore assuming the restore point is recent enough to be worth that, and there are no damaged restore files. problem is, you cant access the snapinLast Known Good Configuration.. if you would like to try that, go ahead, however that is typically hardware/driver related but do give it a shot. You have booted so Windows may consider the last known good configuration as the current boot circumstances.If system restore is out, and LKGC is out, then the only other options at this point are a complete wipe, or, a repair install.I think the best course of action would be a "repair install" Since you do have access and it is partially functional. The down side is you will need to go to Windows update and get all the updates (several times) after the repair is complete. The repair install should leave everything in tact and simply reinstall the critical Windows system files but it may require you reset certain things back up.Here is how it is done...First, this will require you get to a COMMAND PROMPT through the TASK MANAGER. If it will not allow a command prompt box, we will have to do this without the prep.Bring up the task manager, click FILE

Hi Nick,It's not looking too hopeful, is it?A couple of other problems have now come to light:1. I tried to respond to an e-mail and the following message appeared:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/185931.jpg2. I've discovered that my Sound drivers have gone walkabout (confirmed with DXDiagnostics) and Creative Diagnostics advises a reinstall of the software:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/185932.jpgI didn't disable System Restore so there should be a recent restore point there somewhere if I could only access the System Restore program.I suspect you are right regarding 'Last known Good Configuration'.I guess I'll have to restore images of C: and D: from my Acronis True Image Backups (and pray that they are OK).What a nightmare!Thanks for all the time and trouble you've taken to help sort this out. I hesitate to say it, but I never experienced any problems of this nature with PerfectDisk. Looks like, for whatever reason, O&O and my system are unlikely to be best pals, now or in the future.I'll wait until the morning in case you have anything further to add. It's 4:20am in the UK and time I got some shuteye!Regards,Mike

Mike, I know how easy it is to say... I used this, never saw that before so it must be this that caused it... which is right in line with Occam's Razor and theory, and the assesment may be absolutely right.I learned a long time ago with computers that although something I just installed or used looks like it

Hi Nick,Looks like System Restore is being denied to me... bummer!"System Restore is not able to protect your computer. Please restart your computer, and then run System Restore again"I did in fact come across this message yesterday when I went into SAFE MODE and I was offered the option of restoring to an earlier time. Still, it was worth a try.So, I decided I would restore C: from a backup image saved to an external Maxtor USB drive on 26 Feb 2008. Shouldn't take long, only 10+GB. Easy, or so I thought :(Acronis 10 on the bootable rescue media has now thrown a wobbly!!!All the drives are recognized and I can browse them via the Acronis GUI. However, when I select the last differential backup for C: and D: I am black screened with the following message which means absolutely nothing to me:" iswr: scsi/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/disc: disk with major 8 minor 0 does not have a valid Intel Software Raid signature"Same thing happens when I select the saved image for E: my second physical drive which interfaces via an IDE port on the Mobo.Seems I'm being thwarted at every turn :(I'll try doing a RepairMike

RAID signature?Are you on a RAID0 setup or just the Intel SATA ports as a single drive. Either way, the ports may not have proper driver support using the recovery media or there may have been a layout change since the media was made.One of the major reasons I do not partition drives, besides performance, is for recovery solutions. Also, unless you are using a generic backup whereby the media does not have primary dependencies on the target partition or drive, many times a complete partition backup will not restore unless it is being placed back on the exact drive and/or partition it was designed from.I use the Microsoft Backup ASR recovery feature to make backups for emergency recovery. The only limit in that method is the partition or drive the backup was made from must be restored to a drive or partition of equal or greater size.. Equal meaning exactly equal, 1 byte less in space the backup will refuse to restore. Also, the drive/partition the recovery is targeted for must reside on the same exact port or controller. Otherwise it requires manually editing the .sif file (recovery location data) so it reflects the correct target bus and host.Symantic's Ghost is probably the best of all generic solutions for creating backup image disks or files and is the only product I will use from that compmany. I have not used Acronis for such solutions although I do use the software for partition changes.Generic backups of images which can be restored also have the same dependencies and in many cases require the user use the recovery console to rebuild MBR and the BOOT.INI file so they correctly reflect the boot partition information for Windows after the partition or drive was recovered. Many people mistake a boot failure after recovery using such media as a failure when in fact it was successful but simply needed to be reconfigured so the disk and Windows would boot it.Although not always the case, the only way most image type, or complete emergency backups typically work is if that are being restored to the exact drive, location, partition and controller they were originally taken from and nothing was changed between the time the backup was made and being restored. That is why it is important to keep such media up to date.There are also dangers in using the internal Windows system to remap or renumber drives after such a backup. In doing so the drive 'mapping' in lower access functions will be different that the drive map in Windows and therefore can also render such media useless without some work in matching the configuration the media came from.My concern about trying the repair now is that the backup that was attempted may have damaged what was there to begin with.. unless it halted instantly and did nothing at all.

Hi Nick,Well, we can all relax again. Problem resolved!For a time this morning I really did think that the Gods were conspiring against me and that I was facing weeks of reinstalling and tedious reconfiguring :(However, before throwing in the towel and facing what seemed to be the inevitable, I thought I would try to recover the C: partition by trying Acronis again from within Windows. Indeed it looked very hopeful until, that is, I reached the final hurdle and the following message was thrown at me:"E00640068: Failed to create the scheduled task. Error #1722 - 'The RPC Server is unavailable (0xFFF0)'"So, I ran services.msc from Task Manager and attempted to start Remote Procedure Call (RPC). No joy there either: "Could not start the Remote Procedure Call Service on local Computer. Error 5: Access is denied"By this time I was reminding myself to stay calm and think things through. That strange message: "iswr: scsi/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/disc: disk with major 8 minor 0 does not have a valid Intel Software Raid signature" What on earth was that all about?Then, it hit me! I had been assuming that my installed version of Acronis True Image Home was version 10 but, when I checked, I discovered that in fact it is version 11. The Bootable Rescue Media I had tried to use had been created under version 10 of the program. Could this provide the explanation? I booted back into my crippled Windows, browsed to the executable and fired up Acronis again and, with fingers crossed, started the creation of a new Bootable Rescue Media Disk. Wonder of wonders, it completed successfully!! :)With this new rescue media disk plugged in, 20 minutes later Acronis had deleted the original C: partition and restored the backup taken 1 week ago. Hooray! :-jumpy Why I didn't create that disk after upgrading to version 11 I'll never know. Still, it's a lesson I'll never forget.Windows XP on C: is back to normal, albeit not yet optimized with O&O. D: is optimized with O&O and E: is still waiting in the wings for a decision.I may decide to have another go, but will certainly make sure I have first created a fresh current set of backups before proceeding.There still remains the question as to why this problem occured in the first place? Could it have had something to do with the fact that I recently (3 months ago) enlarged the C: partition with a corresponding reduction in size of D: ? Is it possible that the partition information was corrupted in the process and this somehow confused O&O? If so, will that still be the case and would it be wise to try again? After all D: will need to be defragged again at some stage whether its by O&O or PerfectDisk.http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=31898&page=That's the only major change I've made to my system recently.Anyway, that's another success chalked up! Lessons have been learned and I do thank you again, Nick, for sticking with the problem and for all the helpful advice given. I will certainly keep it filed in case needed in the future. Much of it was familiar, but if you're not using such info frequently then you do tend to forget the steps that need to be taken to troubleshoot successfully. It's great to have such guidance laid out as you have done for me and for others on this forum.Best regards,Mike

Hi Nick,I nearly forgot to tell you that I have checked out my WD Caviar SE16 250GB (WD2500KS) SATAII drive using Data Lifeguard Diagnostics ver. 5.04f on a bootable floppy disk.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/185966.jpgThis test took 1 hour 17 minutes and 4 seconds to complete and, as you can see, no errors were found.Here is the info from the log:03/04/2008, 15:22:56SELECTED OPTION - "SMART STATUS"SELECTED DRIVE - Model : WDC WD2500KS-00MJB0 S/N : WD-WCANK3164262 Firmware : 02.01C03 C H S : 484521 16 63 Capacity : 250G Drive : 0 Port: 0xDC00RESULTS - "NO ERRORS FOUND"ERROR/STATUS CODE = 000003/04/2008, 15:27:59SELECTED OPTION - "QUICK TEST"SELECTED DRIVE - Model : WDC WD2500KS-00MJB0 S/N : WD-WCANK3164262 Firmware : 02.01C03 C H S : 484521 16 63 Capacity : 250G Drive : 0 Port: 0xDC00RESULTS - "NO ERRORS FOUND"ERROR/STATUS CODE = 000003/04/2008, 15:29:26SELECTED OPTION - "SMART STATUS"SELECTED DRIVE - Model : WDC WD2500KS-00MJB0 S/N : WD-WCANK3164262 Firmware : 02.01C03 C H S : 484521 16 63 Capacity : 250G Drive : 0 Port: 0xDC00RESULTS - "NO ERRORS FOUND"ERROR/STATUS CODE = 000003/04/2008, 16:46:34SELECTED OPTION - "EXTENDED TEST"SELECTED DRIVE - Model : WDC WD2500KS-00MJB0 S/N : WD-WCANK3164262 Firmware : 02.01C03 C H S : 484521 16 63 Capacity : 250G Drive : 0 Port: 0xDC00RESULTS - "NO ERRORS FOUND"ERROR/STATUS CODE = 0000I know you were arguing that bad sectors could be behind my troubles with O&O. Would you now agree that this result suggests that the cause, in fact, must lie elsewhere.Regards,Mike

Well this is certainly good news Mike. I was wondering what that error line was all about. The first thing that crossed my mind was the recovery media was not in sync with the drive layout or was unable to configure to the port because of some type of missing file, which I mentioned, however it did not occur to me you may be using the wrong recovery software in so much as another version may be involved. That would make sense.As for the disk check, thanks for running that test. You did not need to post the image but I do appreciate seeing the entire report. At this point I do think there may be something in your install I simply have not seen before. It is noted for future reference. I had several people check out your report. I am by no means a sys admin by profession so after a few more email responses from some very experienced folks in the field came back this morning I pointed them to the post you made. One did say they saw something similar to this a few years back but never related it directly to O&O because it did not happen during or directly after any defrag operation, and, after a recovery the defrag was used constantly and the crash was never seen again.Question, how old is your SP2 slipstream disk? If it

Hi Nick,"how old is your SP2 slipstream disk?"Files dated 8/09/2004Have there been significant changes to SP2 in the interim? Wouldn't I get all the necessary updates anyway via Windows Update?Mike