FSX-SP2, Nvidia or ATi

[Ray Proudfoot 9,028]

Double post, second one deleted.

[Ray Proudfoot 9,028]

Hi Garett,<>That's because FSX is CPU bound. I found the same in FS9 when I changed from a 9800Pro 128Mb to a X1950Pro 512Mb card. What the 8800 Ultra may be better at is running FSX at higher resolutions with no loss of performance. This was the case with my X1950 Pro. I could run FS9 at 1920*1200 and get the same performance as my old 9800Pro gave at 1280*1024.I have no loyalty to either ATI or nVidia. I've had cards from both over the years. I just choose whatever will be best for FS. I was very fortunate that as I was about to order the components for a new PC a UK PC magazine (PC Pro) reviewed the HD3870X2 and hailed it as "the world's fastest graphics card". Mike Swannick also posted some comparative screenshots here (later removed for size reasons) that showed the HD3870X2 gave higher frame rates in a few scenarios and was equal to the 8800GTX in others.For the 3870X2 to produce such good images with the first generation of drivers is praise indeed. I can't honestly say I see anything untoward with FSX or FS9 and would recommend the card to anyone considering an upgrade.Cheers,

[Ray Proudfoot 9,028]

Hi pouldam,<<1. VSync does not work in WINDOWED mode. I've tried a lot of driver versions and played around with NHancer... alas, I have never been able to got it working. Would an ATI card solve my problem?>>Although I'm at work at the moment I'm pretty sure I have this option turned off. I don't ever remember turning it on for any version of FS. I'll check when I get home and report back if it's on.<<2. In heavy cloud conditions, e.g. overcast, my FPS takes a heavy drop. I guess NVidia may be just as good as ATI in this department, but will a speedier card improve this -- knowing that FSX is CPU bound?>>Yes, both ATI and nVidia cards will suffer but more memory on the card would help quite a bit. I seem to remember Phil Taylor recommending as much video memory as possible for FSX. The 8800 Ultra had the most (768Mb) until the HD3870X2 which has 1Gb! Also, frame-rate friendly cloud textures provided in ASX would help.<<1. Does ATI support the use of two monitors in the same way as NVidia's "dual mode" -- allowing you to run FSX on one monitor and other applications on the other?>>Yes. All modern graphics cards support multiple monitors. However, to keep your frame rates as high as possible you should consider a second PC which can be relatively low-spec to run these related apps via WideFS. It makes FS much more fluid. Even more so when you only have a Core2 Duo and not a quad core CPU.<<2. Are passively cooled (no fan) ATI cards available in the fast range (I know NVidia's 8800GT exists in a fanless version)?>>Fast cards really need extra cooling. You're dicing with death if they aren't cooled. The HD3870X2 has one side of it enclosed and the internal fans blow all the hot air straight out of the back of the case. That's a brilliant idea but it is a double-width card. You also need a largish case as it's a monster 11" long!Cheers,

[Guest robert32]

Gentlemen:Ihave been reading this forum for years,but have now decided to chime in as I have been using Nvidia Cards for years. After following all the disscussions in these threads, I thought it would be a good idea to buy a 3870x2 for myself and see if there was a difference compaired to my 8800gtx. So far I can report that...1.)The flashing textures at runway/apron intersections are still visible with both cards using DX10 preview(which I use exclusively).Must be FSX related?2.)Runway/Taxi line markings on pavement look better(not dissapearing) with ATI card and drivers. Although the visual taxi arrows still don't work. Again this is in DX10 preview.3.) Shimmering effects on buildings is not visible with ATI card.4.) I have not had a single Crash or out of memory thingy with the ATI card.I'm sure that I am not as knowledgeable as most of you are that frequent this forum, but I have enjoyed your insight for many years and you have all made my Hobby exciting for me. I like the look and feel of Vista 64 Ultimate and FSX DX10 preview and hope all the vendors will work on solutions to fix these problems. I look forward to FS11.Respectfully,robert32

[pouldam 0]

Hi Ray,Thanks for your input!Starting from the bottom, I have just been reading Phil Taylors interesting blog about gfx cards and doing some other research. If I decide to switch to ATi I think I will settle for the HD3870 and mount an Artic Accelero S1 passive cooler which should be sufficient. This card seems like a nice middle-of-the-road solution which I believe will also give a tiny performance boost compared to my NVidia 7900GS.However, the VSYNC issue is my biggest concern. Without VSYNC enabled I get really bad tearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tearing) of the image when panning/looking around (using TrackIR). If going for more than a short VFR ride this occasionally leads to headache. Thus, I am really surprised if you fly with VSYNC disabled!? Unless, of course, that FSX internally enables it by default for ATi cards (you lucky b....) ;-)If it does, expect to see a 7900GS very soon on eBay.../ Cheers and thanks for looking into this, Poul

[Ray Proudfoot 9,028]

Hi Poul,Regarding the VSync issue can you disable the TrackIR and see how things look? It may be related to the TrackIR hardware.The other point regarding VSync is the refresh rate of your displays. Mine are at 60Hz. If yours are any different have you tried different values? As that article on Wiki say's this is a throwback to CRTs and their refresh rate. With TFTs this shouldn't be an issue.I doubt FSX does anything different for ATI cards than nVidia. It really does sound like either a driver issue or maybe the TrackIR driver.Cheers,

[pouldam 0]

Hi Ray,I will try to disable my TrackIR when I get home from work, although I have difficulty seeing how it could be the culprint. However, I do belive that the tearing may be more obvious when using the TrackIR as the viewpoint is constantly moving (a little) -- no matter how little you try move your head.I use the default refresh rate of 60 Hz on my 22" LCD (having tried others as well), but the tearing is still there.I agree that this is most likely a driver issue (or a bug in FSX if all users experience the same?) as VSYNC seems to work OK in fullscreen. However, fullscreen prevents me from using both my monitors at the same time and also reduces FPS, so it is important to repeat that what we are discussing here is fullscreen behaviour.Ray, when you get in front of FSX, please try to do some fast horisontal pannings and tell me if your experience any tearing (others are obviously more than welcome to chime in). If it is a driver issue and ATi do not have this problem, I will gladly buy a new card to get a working driver./ Cheers, Poul

[Mace 1,941]

Robert32You have quite the FS computer going there. And that appears to be...8 gigabytes of DDR3! Wow.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

[pouldam 0]

Hi again,I have now tried runnnig FSX in windowed mode with the TrackIR disabled - alas, no still tearing when panning left to right vice versa.Also tried using only one monitor, but it is still tearing.Ray, have you had the time to verify your setup? Are you sure that you do not have any tearing in the VC in windowed mode?/ Cheers, Poul

[Ray Proudfoot 9,028]

Hi Poul,Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. I've just tried a quick flight around Sydney, Australia in the Cessna 182 and it started badly with FSX crashing as I panned in VC windowed mode.I think that may have been down to my AA and AF settings not being loaded so I tried the flight again with AA at 6X and AF at 16X.This time things went very well and I stayed in Windowed mode and repeatedly panned left and right in VC mode. I didn't see any tearing of either the panel or the scenery. It's hard to know what you're seeing without a screenshot and even if I posted one it's of a static image, not a moving one.I've tried it in full-scren mode too and it seems fine.Hope that helps.

[pouldam 0]

Hi Ray,Thanks for spending time on this issue. Funnily enough, no more than 10 minutes ago I thought to myself "what the heck" and ordered a Sapphire Toxic HD3870. I am really excited to see if it eliminates the tearing (and thereby the lurking headache), but according to your experience there may be light at the end of the tunnel.Being unfamiliar with ATi I would like a piece of advice of what to install when the card arrives. On the ATi web site I see two packages: A driver package and a Catalyst Software Suite. The latter is rather large and if it only adds zillions of useless applications I would rather avoid bloating my system and stick to the driver package. However, I guess I need to be able to adjust AA, AF, multi monitor setup, vsync etc. -- is that possible by only installing the driver package?Finally, any idea at what level should I be able to set AA and AF without wasting FPS?Once again thanks a lot. I will post my experience later this week./ Cheers, Poul

[Ray Proudfoot 9,028]

Hi Poul,Try the Omega drivers here http://www.omegadrivers.net/I've used them for ages. It includes an ATI Tray Tools utility by Ray Adams which you can use to set AA, AF and other texture quality settings. I have all of mine to the highest quality. AA is 6X and AF 16X. Most quality cards can handle those without impacting negatively on frame rates.I'm sure you'll love what this card can do. Good luck and report back with your findings.Cheers,

[Mace 1,941]

>Hi Poul,>>Try the Omega drivers here http://www.omegadrivers.net/>>I've used them for ages. It includes an ATI Tray Tools utility>by Ray Adams which you can use to set AA, AF and other texture>quality settings. I have all of mine to the highest quality.Did you have any problems with the fan speed on your 3870x2?Did you have to do any manual adjusting of the fan speed?RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

[Guest AreCee]

Update: Thanks guys for your input. Last night I tried another experiment on my spare hard drive, this time using XP x64bit, did the Windows updates and installed the latest Nvidia drivers I could find for x64, 169.44 from EVGA. Loaded FSX and ran it. No tweaks, no addons, it actually looked good and ran well. Then SP1, no tweaks, had some blurries, then tried SP2. Once again, SP2 started out OK, and within a matter of minutes, was back to a blurry mess. So far this has happened with XP Pro 32bit, Vista Business 32 bit, and now XPx64bit. So the next step is to try another video card... so tonight I ordered an ATi 3870 512 meg. Will post back if this makes any difference with SP2.--Ray

[Guest ChrisE]

Perhaps I can join your discussion.I am always very confused because whatever is being discussed is often seen as critical to FSX performance.To clarify for a (very) non expert: Are you all saying that if I build a modestly overclocked E8400 system (or the equivalent quad core) with 4Gb Ram & Vista 64 it will not change the FSX frame rate whether I spend