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Guest AndrewW

concorde probs anyone?

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hi,very nice plane...free..and luv the VC but,the FF in flight is wristbreaking, and is it me or does it blow about in the wind big time?also on a different note,the multiplay settings in f2002.cfg ie segment size and connection type, are they implemented in the game or just a future thingy that MS aborted?cheers,jim

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___________________________________________________________________very nice plane...free..and luv the VC but,the FF in flight is wristbreaking, and is it me or does it blow about in the wind big time?____________________________________________________________________She's very heavy in the stick. Kinda reminds me of the Posky 747s. I love it. She looks good. She flies great. Takeoffs and landings are awesome. Rudder is too sensitive. Airbakes are too sensitive. Neither one of those is a big deal. The rudder can be adjusted in the aircraft cfg file. Not to sure about the airbrakes?? I'm still looking for a keystroke combo to raise and lower the nose. Don't like going back to the 2d pit to do that.

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I have a question or two.. I so far am unable to really get her moving.The best I seem to get now is 450knts or so at 40,000 feet. (This is w the burners on.)Also how do you get the heading and alt hold to work ? I've tried quite a few different ways w no luck.Anyone ?/Walt,

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The only problem I have is with the VC and my POV hat view. I can move it left no problem but it doesn't want to move right. All my other planes have no problem. In 2D cockpit it works fine also. Again, just in VC mode.

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What do I need to edit in order to decrease rudder sensitivity?

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Figured out the nose key combo. Flaps key. dumb!!! Didn't even think of that one. I think you need to climb to altitude for speed. Like 60k feet. How does one turn the afterburners on?? Guess I should get that manual?

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Fun plane... my issues after spending a few hours with it. 1) Frame rate hit. Spot view gets me about 5fps. Normally get 15-20 with other planes. 2) Can't slew away from the gate. When I slew back (pushback) I hit the Y key and it goes forward full-speed. Can't stop it. Building crash. Makes it almost impossible to start at a gate (for RC flights).3) No fuel management. Halfway through a 3 hour flight I move out of CG limit and can't move fuel to fix it. Had to go into the FS menu and do it manually. 4) Occasionally the IAS indicator will fall to 0. Thought it might be icing (happened around FL120 in clouds) but there's no pitot heat switch. Did it twice in one flight, then came back after about 2 minutes. 5) Odd behaviour with speed brakes (/). Actually seems to speed the plane up (nose down). Without them it is nearly impossible to reduce speed for approach. Engine idle with AP ALT hold gives you about 250 KIAS. Even a -1200fpm descent kicks you up to 270KTS (and makes the RC controller get crabby "SIR that's the second time you've busted your airspeed!" (anybody else wanna smack him sometimes?))6) Does the Concorde have reverse thrust? I was unable to get it to work and it is IMPOSSIBLE to slow it down without it. Speed brakes (/) seemed to help, but with no indicator you don't know if they are on or off. 7) A manual would be nice. Since I don't "PARLEY VOO FRAN-SAY" the docs are meaningless to me. :)Anyway, fun plane nonetheless (for the price!). Enjoy those 2 1/2 hour LAX to HNL flights!EddieKSLC

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Hey Walt,Flying this bird 'correctly' is quite tricky. I have some excellent info at home I think Paul Varn sent to me a while ago. I'll try post it on this thread when I get home tonight.In the meantime - Try taking her up to 38,000ft. Then flick on the after burners (shift + f4) programme auto pilot to Mach 1.70, climb rate of about 1000ft per min. Once you reach Mach 1.70, turn off the after burner, reduce climb rate to just around 100ft per minute (or less), climb to 60,000ft aiming for a max speed of Mach 2.04.One crucial thing I haven't worked out yet however, is how to move the fuel to the rear of the aircraft. This is essential in order to maintain safe and level flight.Hope this little bit of info helps.Regards,Boone

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Hi Boone, Paul Varn designed an excellent airfile for Concorde - certainly the most realistic one ever created, and I can't see anyone beating it in the years to come! The PM2 airfile is not really very realistic, I only tested this once - and found similar items which need addressing to what others have said they have found in the topic. Below is a small tutorial. Hopefully it will help some people understand some of the procedures, which are used on the aircraft and help them simulate those in flight sim. I'm still in the process of writing this up - though I'm sure there will be some parts of interest! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -British Airways Flight London - New York JFKConcorde calls Heathrow delivery half an hour before departure, confirmingthat they will be departing on time and so that the ATC sectors down theroute can prepare the oceanic clearances required. The aircraft is set upfor the flight by all three members of crew, using a combination of scanchecks and using the 'normal checklist'. Half an hour later, the aircraft isready for engine start. It is common practise to start the two inboardsfirst, followed by engine 1 and 4 while the aircraft is pushed back. Insituations where the engines were shutdown less than 4 hours beforestart-up, a 'debow' start is used. This is where part of the aircraft needsto be 'debowed' before the engine can be started - which involves runningthe engine for 30-60secs at 35%N2 before allowing it to accelerate to 65%N2.This operation is currently in use out of NY, as British Airways use thesame aircraft for the two flights between London, as well as on the Barbadosflight.The aircraft then taxis out to the runway in use for departure. When nearingthe runway holding area, a 'reverse air shut off check' is carried out,which involves advancing the throttles to 18*, then to idle, and finallyinto idle reverse. This is to check that the bucket/nozzle systems functioncorrectly.Other preparations for departure unique to Concorde include arming the takeoff engine rating mode. On departure, when the throttles are advanced to theforward stops, the electronic system will hold the engines back to acalculated N1/N2 setting (which the flight engineer has calculated amongmany other variables set for departure). Also this system will hold engine 4back to 88%N1 below a ground speed of 60Knots, due to the asymmetry of theengine. In fact, many pilots state that the No. 4 behaves quite differentlyfrom the other three!For departure, the reheats are selected, the brakes are released and theclocks are set with the call '3-2-1-Now". At this point, the throttles areadvanced fully forward (only a few airliners still do this). Initially acouple of nudges of left rudder are required to counteract the asymmetry ofNo.4 engine (held back up to 60Kts). The stick is left in its trimmedposition. At Vr (around 190Kts), the stick is pulled back, raising the noseto about 13* with a rate of 3* per second. V2 (the speed that the aircraftleave the ground) is usually around 220Kts. As the aircraft passes through240kts, the nose is raised further to keep the speed below 250Kts, stillwith the use of with full power and reheats.The noise abetment procedures out of Heathrow require the reheats to beswitched off after a calculated time (just over a minute). The throttles arethen brought back to 93%N2 and held at this setting up to 3000ft. On passing4000ft, 2% is added. The flight engineer will continue to add 2% of power tothe engines on passing every 1000ft, thus; at 7000ft the engines are at101%N2 - the MCP is the engaged at 8000ft.The standard T/O procedure (which is hardly ever done) is full-reheatedpower, reheats off at 500ft QFE, engine flight rating at 1000ft QFE. Thethrottles stay at the forward stops, but by doing the above, max continuousclimb power has been selected. The aircraft climbs and accelerates to VMO asquickly as possible - remember Concorde is only efficient at high speed.With this unrestricted climb, the aircraft must not exceed 270kts if thegear is not fully retracted.With an unrestricted climb, the transonic accel point is not performed at aparticular place, but as soon as the aircraft reaches M0.93- i.e. thereheats are switched on in pairs at that point.Returning to the flight out of LHR:The aircraft climbs out of Heathrow heading towards Woodley NDB (352)climbing to 6000ft and contacts London Control on 134.125 (Concorde contactsBritish Airways Terminal on 131.900 briefly, confirming their ETA for JFK).The aircraft continues to fly the Compton SID, usually on radar headingsfrom ATC. Before reaching MALBY the aircraft is cleared to its accelerationpoint in the Bristol Channel at FL260.At this point moving fuel to the rear of the aircraft has already commenced,and will continue to throughout the flight.On passing the accel, Concorde is cleared to climb and accelerate to FL600.At this point, there are two methods of climb:(1) Take out the Auto throttle and place the throttles at the forward stops.Engage the reheats (2/3:1/4) and select Pitch Hold on the autopilot. Thisselection is maintained through M1. You cannot change AT modes whileaccelerating through M1!(2) Engage 'Max Climb' mode, as well as the four reheats. This will put theaircraft into a climb, which will keep the speed at VMO. This mode is usedthroughout the rest of the flight, coupled with 'Max Cruise' when theaircraft is just above FL500. From here you select Cruise Rating, and theaircraft will cruise climb to FL600.Passing M1.70 (around FL430) the afterburners are switched off, and theaircraft continues to accelerate on full dry power. On passing flight level500, Concorde begins its cruise climb (Max Cruise mode), with a rate ofabout 50 feet per minute (fpm). This is called a 'Cruise Climb' : -This is the most efficient way for the aircraft to fly at these altitudes.Using a fixed power setting, the fuel is burnt off, which decreases theweight of the aircraft, which allows it to climb higher. A bit like the sameway any other commercial jet liner would, they 'step climb'. Like theConcorde, as they burn off fuel, they will 'step up' to the next flightlevel. Concorde doesn't need to perform these steps, as it is the onlyaircraft operating on the airway in only one direction. E.g. All theWestbound flights will fly on the SM Track, and all the eastbound flightswill fly the SN. In Concorde, this 'Step Climb' is referred to as 'CruiseClimb', which was used by other aircraft in the early days before subsonicairspace became more populated.So depending on the temperature, and the amount of fuel burnt off, theaircraft climbs at a slow rate (+/- 50fpm), starting off at around FL500-520and will end up at the end of the cruise somewhere around FL580-590. Theaircraft never actually cruises at FL600.The published Decel point on the plan into NY is at position N42 00.0 W06700.0. The next intersection is LINND, which is just over 200nm from 42N067W.The decel point is calculated using a table found in the 'normal checklist'.The aircraft levels off at its current altitude and this is then looked upon the table; lets say FL580 (roughly what you'll end up at on a LHR-NYrun). Lookup the distance required to decelerate to Mach 1 under the currentaltitude and wind-speed / direction. E.g. 50Kts headwind. So at FL580, witha 50Kts headwind, it will take 149Nm to decelerate to Mach 1 and with aconstant descent rate, be level at 14,000ft by OWENZ. The requirement on theSM2 track is to be Mach 1 before LINND, with other boom restrictionsconcerning the distance from Nantucket (ACK).The decel procedures into the UK are a little more complicated: -It is required that when flying into the UK that the engines are warmedafter decelerating. Using a similar table to what is used on the NY andBarbados routes, the distance to descend and decelerate to FL410 iscalculated. The restriction on the SL3 route is to be Mach-1, 110nm beforeMatim, which is around 80Nm on the 300 (310?) radial from Lands End VOR (LND114.20).Again, for an example lets say that at the end of the cruise the aircraft isat FL580 with a 40Kts tailwind. It will take 112nm to descend to FL410 - andso the decel point is 222Nm from Matim.On reaching the decel point, the throttles are brought back to hold 96% N2until the aircraft hits 350KIAS, at which point the AFCS is instructed tohold 350Kias, and so the aircraft has no option than to descend. The descentrate varies, initially around 1500-2000fpm. The packs on the aircraftrequire a certain amount of air to run though them, and above 50000ft, whichwhen the throttles are closed, the amount of air required is not available(due to the thin air at high alts). As soon as the aircraft descends to analtitude where there is enough air to supply the packs, the throttles arebrought back to 36 degrees.The result is a high descent rate, around 3000-4500fpm. When the aircraftbegins to level off at FL410, the autopilot is instructed to descend toFL370, however by doing this, the AFCS engages Pitch Hold mode. At thispoint the aircraft decelerates to M0.95 and levels off at FL370. Once theaircraft is at FL370, it is required to warm the engines for 1min. The restof the subsonic cruise is then flown at M0.95.When ATC issue a descent, the initial descent is flown at Mach 0.95 untilthe aircraft hits 350Kias, at which point the autopilot is then told to hold350Kias.Now that the aircraft is subsonic, it continues towards CAMRN. The speed isbrought back to 250Kts when with 12nm of land, whereas other aircraft in theU.S have the restriction '250Kts below 10,000ft'.When ATC ask for the aircraft to descend to a lower level in a short periodof time, a feature called 'idle-reverse' is used. On Concorde, as soon asthe throttles are closed, the aircraft practically falls out the sky - whenidle reverse (only on inboard engines) is engaged; the aircraft can plummetat 11,000ft per min!There are four restrictions when using this feature: -1) Must be subsonic2) Must be below 30,000ft3) Must be below 370KIAS4) Can only be used for a maximum of 4mins - which is ridiculous as afterthis time the aircraft would have hit the ground!At landing weight, the min drag speed is 320Kts. The increased profile dragof the gear lowers this to 260Kts. Once the aircraft has to comply withspeed restrictions, it slows to an approach speed between 250Kts and 210Kts,lowering the visor and nose to 5* passing through 270Kts. On further decentto 3000ft, the aircraft is slowed further to 190Kts to establish the LOC.From here, the aircraft descends on the ILS, lowing the gear, and the noseto 12*, slowing now to 170Kts. On approaches into London Heathrow, theaircraft maintains 190Kts to 800ft, and then slows to the VREF (landing)speed.From 100ft the aircraft has to be in the right place, the approach is over,and there is little room for adjustment. From here, the pilot must not payany more attention to the GS or Vasis. The marks on the runway should beignored; they'll soon disappear under the nose. The descent rate is alsoalarming to the pilot, as 700fpm is maintained right down to 15ft, whichgives the impression that the runway is coming up fast towards the aircraft,with good reason - it is!The attitude is held at around 10*. The descent rate must not change until15ft is reached, or the aircraft will never get down! Also, the pilot mustnot aim for a spot on the runway; rather to look ahead at the end of therunway, or beyond it, making sure that attention is still paid to everythingelse in the field of vision.The height calls should be about one every second, "fifty, forty, thirty,twenty", which helps to keep the decent rate at about 700fpm. At 15ft, theauto throttles are taken out and the throttles are closed.At the same time, backpressure is applied to the stick, which keeps the viewin front of the pilot the same, it should not change!After the main wheels touch the ground, both pilots call 'sticks forward'and the nose is lowed. The antiskid systems on Concorde are not activateduntil the nose wheel is down, which is why it is important to get the nosemoving down as quickly as possible.Another reason for placing the sticks forward is that when all four enginesare placed into reverse, there is a pivot effect about the main gear, whichtries to raise the nose. As soon as the nose wheel is on the ground, theantiskid systems are activated, and all the aircrafts weight acts throughthe wheels - making breaking for efficient.Passing through 100Kts the outboard engines are placed into idle-reverse andthe inboards follow when decelerating through 75Kts. All four engines areretuned to their normal idle positions at 50Kts and the aircraft is slowedto taxi speed, with the nose being raised to 5* as the aircraft leaves therunway.As Concordes engines produce soo much thrust, the two inboard engines areshut down after landing and the remaining fuel is pumped forward so thatwhen the aircraft is unload, the aircraft does become tail heavy and pivot.I have only briefly outlined some of the procedures used, on the LHR-NYroute alone! If you would like to know anything else concerning how theaircraft is flown, please don't hesitate to ask!Andrew Wilson Andrew@yeomanspc.freeserve.co.ukhttp://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e444e6068d24715.jpg

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Wow !Thanks Boone and Andrew !Could someone now explain how they got the AP to work ?Walt,

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Hi Walt,The AP works just like any other in flight sim. I can't tell you anything else other than try and try again!Boone

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Don't know much about the Concorde but I did a flight last night from CYYZ to KMIA (I know, not a normal route) using activesky wxRE and Radar Contact. The visual model of this a/c is beyond stunning!The flight was great but a couple things I noticed (and a few questions):1) In spot view the ground was bouncing up and down madly at FL600.2) The plane overshoots waypoints by 4 to 5 miles that require more than a few degrees turn . I think actually that this is neat. Since you're ripping along so fast I guess you have to prepare for things WELL in advance. For anyone knowledgeable about Concorde navigation - Do they in reality fly pretty much in a straight line, ie GPS on their long flights? That's quite the bank angle at that speed to make a turn!3) It does seem to blow around a lot. I assumed at first this was due to extreme winds at altitude. Active Sky reports winds at 80 knts - nothing extreme.4) I keep getting an annunciator warning that my Center of Gravity is off. How do I change the cg? It happens on takeoff. Once airborne the message goes away.5) When do you actually use afterburner? Is it during the initial climb? During what stages of flight do I kick it in?6) I got a lot of stuttering at altitude - especially towards the end of my flight. My system seemed stressed. About 80 miles from KMIA, after a really fun flight, Radar Contact crashed. Something was overworking my system.I don't think MS likes anything that travels as fast as Mach 2.0.AWESOME PLANE!!!!! :-eek Thanks, Adam

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>>2) Can't slew away from the gate. When I slew back (pushback) I hit the Y key and it goes forward full-speed. Can't stop it. Building crash. Check your joystick assignments in slew mode. I had this same problem with an aircraft and it was due to my pedals having a duplicate slew assignment.

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Well, I have no textures showing in the VC nor outside the plane.Also, I think the 2d panel is a tad dated.

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Haven't tried it, but read on another post... if you turn off the landing lights the VC will light up red. ?? Eddie

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hi richardtried that... it didn't work,still very slow when trying to move right in VC mode.did you do anything else.????? thx stevealso if i push down the POV hat it goes off at funny angle.

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I have to say it appears to be one of the best flight models around, certainly far superior to FS2000, although it seems a tad nose down at all speeds to me. I find in level flight at 400kts and 28000' it is about 4 degrees down. Also on approach at 160kts it is about 8-9 deg. nose up, whereas i believe it should be more like 12. Anyone else finding this?With regards the 2d panel, I am using the fs2000 one. It is far easier to fly with. All the controls are there (pilot heat and GPS)In answer to some of the previous notes, I have similar problems with slowing down. Pressing the speedbrake key deploys the thrust reversers slightly - probably to simulate idle reverse on engines 2 and 3, which is selectable in flight in concorde. Although I haven't flown it enough yet to determine if this really is supposed to be simulating this. If anyone gets the chance tonight, decending with this should give a decent rate of ~5000fpm.Finally, is anyone having problems with the textures on the tail remaining blurred. I know there is a big hit on frame rates, but sometimes the blue and red merge into one amorphous mess.Regards,Kevin

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Steve,The only other thing I did was change the "eyepoint" for the "Pilot View" in the "aircraft CFG" from 63.188 to 62.188 to back away from the panel a little bit. I didn't change the other values. Try that, maybe it was the combination that fixed it for me.maxsdadhttp://jdtllc.com/images/RCsupporter.jpg

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Sorry Richard, I tried your fix and I don't think that's the solution to the POV hat situation. I'm still haveing the same problem but thanks anyway. Glad things are working for you.

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I'm haveing the same issues as you Kevin...Here is my new slogan:IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO CAN SPEAK FRENCH???

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