>PPS; I wonder if in '2069', a Frenchman will argue that >America wasn't the first to land a man on the moon? ;-) >Actually two delightful books were written by French writer Jules Verne in 1865 (yes that eigthteen sixty five) with Americans and French flying to the moon during the Civil War !You can get it free herehttp://www.ibiblio.org/gutenberg/cgi-bin/s....org/gutenberg/or pay few bucks therehttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/055...8804598-8299038

An excellent clarification!

Ah yes, a wonderful book!

Regardless of which nationality 'invented' flight, what is relevant is that powered flight in a heavier than air craft has changed the world, and changed it in a huge way. That is what the 'Century of Flight' is celebrating. Unpowered flight, whether in a ballon or glider, changed virtually nothing. Had it for some reason never been possible to put an engine in an aircraft then flight today would be nothing more than a curiousity, but of no real relevance and hardly worthy of commemorating.

due to the Avsim forum page loading "slow down" every weekend! :)Must be a whole lot of reading around here, Saturdays & Sundays..Start's about 10:00 am Eastern timeOr is it the race???? (Wouldn't know)Is this effecting anyone else's reading ability?L.Adamson

>Is this effecting anyone else's reading ability?I've noticed the same thing at times. Yet another thing that makes me incredibly happy to have a Cable modem.

Oh, jeez, yes, Larry. It's a real pain. Very early in the morning, things just hum right along, but starting about 8:30 or 9 a.m. it all goes to hell in a handbasket. It can take as long as 30 seconds (sometimes longer) just to open up ONE post!!-Lindy :-wave

alder not only was the first in built up an engine able to sustain in flight its own weight, using his machine called eolo he also gave us an important thing when he build his second flying machine and its the name of it "avion" , airplane, from the latin avis = bird so he created this name for the flying machines that we know it was the first time that was used the word airplane for a flying machine. :) an interesting fact really. and i think that the history of aviation is an history of great development of technology, and a lot of nations gave his ideas to create the aviation like we know so there is no reason to credit only one country for this achievment. Because you will forget a lot of people with diferent nationalities who made his inventions part of this history that we all enjoy.

Interestingly enough, Americans also believe that the telephone was invented by them. In reality, it was invented in Canada. According to American textbooks, the oldest settlement in North America is Savannah, Georgia. In reality, it is Quebec City, Quebec, Canada. So, taking credit for the airplane is not that strange. In reality, though, it was not the Wright brothers. It was French!John-Paul

An other obstruse sentence: whether you wanted it or not, this sentence is quite confusing.If ever they managed to do this pattern, this was CERTAINLY NOT in the flight we are talking about. They may have achieved this but a long time after, in 1908 I believe.The december 17th of 1903 flights were straight forward flights no longer than 260 meters (59 sec).Mines,If you check the original Wright Bros. documents, I believe you will see that they did make a 180 degree turn on that first day (on their 18th or 19th flight), but the Wright Flyer lacked sufficient power to maintain altitude during the maneuver. The Wright Flyer II, which flew 8 months later, had a newly designed engine that was capable of nearly twice the horsepower at the same weight and it was with this version that they were able to fly continuously in a circle and maintain their altitude. (information from American National Archives)A much later design (having more conventional ailerons and having the elevators moved to the rear) was demonstrated to the US Army by the Wright Brothers in 1908 (hence why you may recall that date). After 1908, the Wright Bros. did little to advance the design of aircraft, as they spent most of their time and money in court attempting to protect their patents. When everyone mentions "controlled" flight, it is referring to the ability to turn, left or right, without using one's body weight to achieve. The Wright Bros. had spent many hours testing in their homemade wind-tunnel to perfect their technique of "wing-warping" to achieve controlled roll! Everything that had flown (heavier than air) before the Wright Bros lacked the controls to have the ability to takeoff on its own, maintain altitude, and then turn around and land back where it took off from. It is pretty much as simple as that! Frankly, what the Wright Brothers really did invent, that truly affected history, was their having invented a light-weight engine with sufficient power to make an airplane (heavier than air) work, that in my mind was their greatest achievement!As far as who or whom flew the first hot air balloon or glider, well that's pretty much up for grabs, but I can assure you it wasn't the French! Peruvian (South America) Indians were flying hot air balloons as early as 2,000 BC and there is substantial evidence that other cultures were flying gliders even earlier than that!As far as who was first on the moon, the only reason the Americans beat the Soviets was because our German scientists were better than their German scientists! :-lolBear!

:-lol

This French nationalistic chest-thumping is getting ridiculous. First we are talking about celebrating the past 100 years of flight (not the first 100 years of flight) and people have to come into the thread and claim that Americans are twisting history, thereby somehow discrediting the French.If that isn't enough, the absurdity of misquoting historical events that are not even aviation related then enter the thread.We are a global community today. It's not important which nation does what anymore, but how well we can work together. If you must look back, please don't misrepresent facts to overcome an inferiority complex.For example, the French did not have the first settlement in North America, the native Indians hold that distinction as far back as 30,000 years ago. If one doesn't like to accept that notion and only Euorpeans matter, then the Vikings get the credit for establishing Vinland at the mouth of the St. Lawrence River around 1000 AD. The ruins of this first European settlement can be found on the north coast of Newfoundland.Perhaps John-Paul meant the oldest settlement that still exists today in North America. Then the facts say it's San Juan, Puerto Rico founded in 1508 by the Spanish.Even though San Juan is in North America, maybe John-Paul was referring to the mainland of North America, because he emphatically stated "In reality, it is Quebec City". You should be ashamed! You are not giving proper credit to the French! Samuel de Champlain didn't establish Quebec until 1608, yet the French were already residing in Port Royal in Acadia on Nova Scotia as early as 1605.Oh those pesky Spanards! They seemed to pull one over on the French again by establishing St. Augustine, Florida in 1565. That's 40 years before the French had settlers in Acadia.However, here is the real irony of John-Paul's argument..."According to American textbooks, the oldest settlement in North America is Savannah, Georgia. In reality, it is Quebec City..."The settlement outside of Savannah was called Charlesfort and it was established by the French in 1562, even before the Spanish established St. Augustine. So in his haste to put down American textbooks, he dismissed an earlier French settlement in Georgia in favor of a later French settlement in Canada. Charlesfort only existed for a year, but nevertheless, one has to laugh at the irony.So, I bring all of this up as a lesson that ego-centric arguments are silly, especially when one tries to establish nationalistic pride in a subject that isn't even aviation related.How about if we all just chill out, put away the national flags and get back to enjoying Flight Sim as a hobby?

Actually,The new version of FS, I'm not too sure if it's well worth it. I like the modern stuff. The weather looks fairly awesome, but I feel it's going to be a waste of money. I'm waiting for the reviews.

'Minos sad to hear that some deserving pioneers are so (too) easily forgotten... 'That was the last sentence of mz post. The post was not intentionnally made to start an argument on which country did what. It was made in order to give the appropriate credits to people who deserve it.Of course The Wright Bro do deserve some credits for the things they have experimented. And for sure "The Flyer" was a success. However according to my sources, on the 17 december they made just four flights which were straight flights, the longest of which was 59 sec. It would anyway be hard to complete a pattern in 59 sec....But some other people deserve also some credits. And whether you like it or not, Ader was the first *we now know of* to make a flight with a heavier than air engined aircraft. *in 1890*. And if not not the first, at least before the Wright Bro.And whether it is internationally recognised, I really don't care. I don't need any mentor or *bible* to tell me what I shall think.Speaking of 'egocentric' I didn't mention anybody nor did I say France or any other country were better or worst. Just told there are so many (and perhaps more and more) egocentric people and nations... Minos sad to see that some deserving pioneers are so easily forgotten.

"This French nationalistic chest-thumping is getting ridiculous."I really don't understand where this come from...It is not a question of French or American, it is a question of who. And who we must give credit for the first flight...But as stated earlier it is 'A centennial of flight' not 'The centennial of flight', so I think the debate is closed...I would add to your historical briefing that the first church in America was founded bz Spaniards in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. Greetings Minos