Captain Sim is making a B-52

[Guest Jeffreymg]

I hope one day to see the block F as I bought the 757 the day it was released and told the other blocks would be out in a set time frame.I think 2 years for block F is pushing that way beyond the max.I was hoping that simmers who went to the conference would ask Capt Sim what the H is going one and let us know.I would think Avsim would do the same with CaptSim at the function.I will not buy any product from them till what I paid for is delivered. JeffG

[Mike T 208]

Larry:When I started typing this long-winded post I disagreed with you, however, now I do agree. To balance the argument:Captain sold and touted a product that would be released in "blocks" leading up to a full fledged high fildelity 757 simulation FOR FS9. There is no equivocation and no room for argument as to the promised, advertised and assumed product that was being sold. As such, there is an inherent PROMISE (by the vendor, Captain Sim) that if one were to purchase the simplistic (albeit pretty) product now, it will be part of a fully complex 757 later. End of story.Two years later, CS has released numerous other products, including collaboration on the F/A-18 simulation that is included in the controversial FSX Accelleration product. However, in that time the balance of the PROMISED and ADVERTISED 757 product for Captain Sim has yet to appear. The reason that Larry thinks that CS is great is because he, and others like him, got what they wanted: A pretty visual model. He's happy because he did not purchase a high fidelity flight deck from CS two years ago, because it did not exist (and still does not exist).With those points in mind, who is to blame for this two year old fiaco? First, those who wanted the "end product", the much touted high fidelity 757, should have waited until ALL of the "blocks" were in, instead of buying it piecemail. Apropo, if a pretty external model will not satisfy one as a consumer, one has had absolutely no reason to purchase any of the blocks to date. Why did one purchase the product as it exists today when it is not what one really wanted in the first place?On the flip side, if all one wanted was a simple internal, but detailed external model, the Captain Sim 757 is just fine. Product delivered and case closed. Unfortunately, there is the pesky issue of the PROMISED completed product that has yet to exist. To ignore this point would be to be "ostrich-like" in one's approach to the total bredth of the issue.So, while one could heap the "buyer beware" moniker to those who are left holding only empty promises and an unwanted product, significant fault also lies with Captain Sim.For instance: I recently purchased furniture for my home library and two sets of wall shelves where on backorder. My wife and I loved the set and were willing to wait the 4 - 8 weeks until the rest of the furniture appeared, so we paid the price for the in-stock products, received some of the pieces (which in itself is functional enough) and had full expectation that the final pieces would arrive to complete the sale. Nine weeks later, the back-ordered pieces arrived and we were extremely pleased. However, if those final pieces would NOT have shown up, we would have demanded a FULL REFUND for the products already delivered because we had a FULL UNDERSTANDING that the product as delivered was not complete until ALL pieces were in, functioning, and as advertised. The company with which I dealt was reputable with a 150 year history of making furniture so there was a certain level of trust and the company did not fail to deliver.I believe that this scenario applies more-so (except for the impecable reputation of the vendor)to this fiasco than the one that the "buyer beware" vendor apologists would affix. Is it all a "scam"? Well no, it is not. To be a scam, CS would have to have given malicious forethought to never delivering all of the pieces of the 757 two years ago and I don't think that is the case. I think that they intended to complete the product but couldn't. However, for those who purchased with the intent of receiving a full and completed product as advertised, each and every one is owed a FULL REFUND along with a sincere apology since the full advertised product was never delivered. But that won't happen.At the end of the day, companies such as Captain Sim, Wilco/Feelthere and others will keep delivering half finished products that cause controversy as long as the community keeps frequenting them. If the community found the unity to run Peter Tishma out of town on a rail, then find the strength now, start seperating the wheat from the chaff, and start shutting down companies that charge premium prices for subpar products, plain and simple. If not, then quite frankly, this community will get what it deserves and is reduced to the status of prey-animal surrounded by preditors. Shakespear said it best: "The fault lies not in our stars, but in ourselves."My 25 cents worth. (Edit: which is not worth very much on afterthought since I am certain that those in the UK and EU can afford to use the US Dollar as toilet paper. But that is a story for another day. - He says as he digs his UK Passport out storage.)Regards,Mike T.

[LAdamson 240]

A rational & thoughtful reply...And to your quote:Is it all a "scam"? Well no, it is not. To be a scam, CS would have to have given malicious forethought to never delivering all of the pieces of the 757 two years ago and I don't think that is the case. I think that they intended to complete the product but couldn't. I don't know the inside story at C/S, but without doubt, many good developers end up loosing part of their design/programming staff for various reasons. This often delays products, causes abandonment of certain projects, or puts the developer out of business altogether. This has happened many times in the flight sim business.L.Adamson

[Mike_CFII_MEL 789]

Hello,I agree, and I believe the word "con artist" refers to Capt. empty promises in regards to fixes and upgrades that have never be developed, even though they have been promised many, many, many, many months ago. Just more empty promises (smoke and mirrors) from someone who never intends on producing these fixes!!!.As far as the word crap, until the B757 aircraft is completed as promised by Capt. empty promises, it is crap. As as far as I am concerned he "LIED" to everyone who purchased his B757 and is still waiting for the next block! So, don't hold your breath, because his track record says it is "NOT" coming!It was stated in the the very beginning (this so called block system) that the B757 would be a "complete" aircraft, and yet I still see some people still coming here defending this work ethic, maybe they work for Capt. empty promises, or are looking for a job. It amazes me how many gullible people we still have in this community, and some that will never learn. I have never purchased from Captsim since his empty promise to me in regards to fixes to his B707, and I will not purchase from him until he makes good on "ALL" his promises. The entire community needs a wake up call, so at the very least, one or two things happen.1. Drive this company out of businessor2. Make him fix everything that was promised.

[LAdamson 240]

>It amazes me how many gullible people we>still have in this community, and some that will never learn. The only "gulliable" people that I see; are those that get this "upset" about computerized desk top airplanes...I said it once, and will say it again ----If it doesn't have all that you want, when you intend to purchase it, then DON'T!!!Unfortunately, numerous companies in real aviation, fail to deliver on so called "promises" too. They started with high expectations, but for one reason or another, it un-ravels. We see it a lot in the experimental market, with everything from high tech auto-pilots, to glass panels & alternative engines.L.Adamson --- doesn't work for C/S, doesn't need a job, and really doesn't care...

[Mike_CFII_MEL 789]

Hi,Guess you work for or your looking for a job with Capt. empty promises. I do not purchase from Capt. empty promises since he lied to me about fixing the B707.Make no mistake about it, I am not upset about a computerized desk top aircraft. I am upset that this community, and communities like this, let Capt. empty promises get away with all his empty promises!.I will continue to inform the flightsim community here and at any other forms I belong to, so they can make an informed decision as to Capt. empty promises. As well as his tactics of take the customers money and than make empty promises month after month after month of fixes and updates that will never come.

[Guest FredGherkin]

>This bothers me too. But it seems, in order to keep this great>resource up and running, Avsim will take money from any>developer, except Ariane and Simplates. >http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.php?...7&view=previousThanks for that link.

[Shaka 2]

>On closer inspection it seems that Captainsim made the>external model (and maybe the flight model too?) whilst>Virtuali (now known as "FS Dreamteam") developed the VC and>systems.It may be that CS does not have a complete in-house design team and works with third parties the same way as Aerosoft does. On the CS website, they offer a product called "XLoad" which is a F-117A Nighthawk combined with a F/A-18D. The F/A-18D is obviously very similar to the Acceleration F-18 and includes the same virtual cockpit, and uses many of the same gauges (not really any custom systems). So, perhaps Virtuali designed the entire aircraft and sold it through CS?My point is that all of CS's products may be like this (same idea as Aerosoft, Lago or Flight1). Nothing wrong with that, but I think where CS went wrong is that they overextended themselves in the past and were unable to meet their own expectations. Many people have been let down - this is especially true for the 707/757 users, but I personally don't have too much to complain about.The one thing that really bothered me was when they started releasing products in the "Block" format. At the time, I thought that they were just trying to make more money, but now I think that they were trying to push unfinished products out the door with a genuine intent to finish them "soon". That's the reason I never bought the 757 - I figured I would wait until the entire project was done, and then I would think about it.I think somebody said it earlier - that some people are happy because CS met their expectations. Some people are not because CS did not fulfill their promises. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes.- Martin

[Aerodynamic 0]

>I agree, and I believe the word "con artist" refers to Capt.>empty promises in regards to fixes and upgrades that have>never be developed, even though they have been promised many,>many, many, many months ago.Mike, that's exactly what I was referring to. I am glad you were able to gather that from my post.>The entire community needs a wake up call, so at the very>least, one or two things happen.>>1. Drive this company out of business>>or>>2. Make him fix everything that was promised.I also want to add that Captain Sim has to be aware of the number of people who are completely discontent with them. I'm not really sure how they can operate day to day with all this on their conscience.If Captain Sim is driven out of business, I can see it now - they would probably say that they are closing due to the "negativity surrounding this hobby" and yada yada yada. It would be one final way to slap us in the face. I hope they are capable of understanding that people generally admire and respect their craftsmanship, and the only negativity is about the way they do business and fail on their commitments.If they started doing one complete project at a time, without any misinformation, and offered some form of support, I would probably own a lot more then just their 757 "shell" product right now.I wonder if we will ever get even an apology from them? I mean, that would at least be something that they could actually complete.