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Speedbyrd

Gotta Love those Commercial Level Airbusses!

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I just invested in the A345/A346 Combi package and wow! $20 bucks for some real dream airliners! Great details, great handling! Thinking about the A330 models too, even though I have the Overland A330's that I'm pretty happy with. Any comparisons on those?The CL A330 package is $32 but comes with about 150 planes.

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I agree, CLS gives you a good bang for the buck.Overland's and SkySim are in the same ballpark, the mid-range 'Lite' category.Though I think CLS is probably a small notch above. All are good values however IMO.Regards.Ernie.

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I like the CLS (from what I see).What do you mean by great handling, can you explain?

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>> CLS gives you a good bang for the buckOccasionally I have a hard time to understand simmers. A visual model with a bunch of textures and a panel with next to ZERO Airbus functionality at 32$ is seen as good bang for the buck. CLS apparently unable to do anything beyond the Microsoft standard SDK, declares their products as 'lite', teaches people to fly a modern Airbus with Vertical Speed Mode, after having slammed the throttle to max for takeoff. Thrust Rating ? Reduced takeoff thrust or climb power ? FBW ? Airbus Autopilot philosophy ? Where ?OTOH, Captainsim is heavily critizised for their 757. Beautiful visual models too, tons of animations, Thrust Rating computer, an Autopilot that more or less does what it should, much more complete FMC, VNAV functionality, LVL CHG Mode, etc. Sure enough it needs a patch or two to complete, but all that just costs a little more. On my FS box it says Flight simulator, not screenshot simulator ;). Oh well, at least the CLS stuff qualifies for the ISGSIM addon gauges :)Mike

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I think maybe you've understated CaptainSim's 757 price.For what you describe (the 757 pro pack), that's sells for about $61 US.That's twice the price of the CLS A300 standalone ($29). But if youbuy the CLS A300/A310/Beluga combi pack that's only $40. That soundslike a pretty good deal to me. If you look around, you can find boththe CLS A310, and A340 separately for less than $15. Also the CLS stuff works in both FS9 and FS9, whereas for the Captain 757 you have to pay an additional $40 for the FSX version.The CaptainSim 757 Pro price seems to be the going rate for that type of product. For that price you expect a certain level of detail and sophistication and you get it. Nothing wrong with that IMO, there's many simmers who feel these sophisticated features are worth the money. The CLS Airbus is a 'Lite' product, we don't expect advanced airbus systems in it. No-one is fooling themselevs into thinking they are even close simulating real Airbus Ops. What they expect is that it looks a bit like an Airbus, it flies pretty good,it has more paints, less detail, less sophistication and a much lower price, and that's what you get from CLS. When you consider the combi packs CLS offers they are indeed a 'good bang for the buck'.Not everyone wants to spend a half hour going through the engine start sequence all the checklists and programming the FMS. These 'Lite' type products are just right for the less detail oriented simmers who don't want to pay $60+ for one aircraft model.And really from what I read CaptainSim is not criticized so much for their 757. It seems to be their product support that they seem to be 'heavily criticized' for.>Oh well, at least the CLS stuff qualifies for the ISGSIM addon gauges CaptainSim does too, thanks to their 'block' philosphy ;-).Regards.

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Hmmm, seems I mixed up Euro and Dollar prices. However, if you compare development times for Microsoft Standard SDK stuff to the products with many custom and authentic parts (systems, FMC, AP, etc.), you'd probably end up at a much bigger price gap. In that regard, the Captainsim 757 is still a cheap offer. How long does the developemnet of a sophisticated Airliner product take ? Let's say three years. How many products would you get from CLS in that three years ? Maybe five, maybe six ?Nothing at all wrong with 'lite' products. But would less experienced simmers be overloaded, when they get teached, an Airliner does not take off with full thrust everytime ? And is rarely, if at all, flown with VS mode to cruise altitude ? I don't think so. That's just two examples where one would not even notice, but would have more real Airliner handling inside. Not to mention Airbus specific features.I'm really wondering a 30-40$ price tag gets accepted for next to zero Airbus feel and functionality. Mike

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I mean their FDE's are tweaked to 'feel real', if that's possible on a desktop computer. I've never flown an A340 but based on other models I've flown, this one has that 'heavy, lumbering' feel that I would expect from a huge jet. They lift off easily, but require a LOT of room for maneuvering and it just a pleasure to "drive".

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I don't know how many of us have flown a real jumbo. I certainly have not, but as a hobby that makes me happy, these 'computer airliners' have a good feel to them. There are severe limits in FS9 as to what should be expected. Right now, my expectations are fulfilled.

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In a way I agree with speedbird. I kinda miss flying lite packages jumping from one aircraft to another. After flying the complex aircraft out there for the past few years I cant bring myself to fly anything else, it just feels wrong. Now I have to wait years before a new complex airliner is created. Ignorance is bliss...

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>Hmmm, seems I mixed up Euro and Dollar prices. However, if>you compare development times for Microsoft Standard SDK stuff>to the products with many custom and authentic parts (systems,>FMC, AP, etc.), you'd probably end up at a much bigger price>gap. In that regard, the Captainsim 757 is still a cheap>offer. >>How long does the developemnet of a sophisticated Airliner>product take ? Let's say three years. How many products would>you get from CLS in that three years ? Maybe five, maybe six>?From the customer standpoint it is pretty much irrelevent how long it takes to produce a product. That's not a concern of the average customer. What they really care about is what features, details, and functionality they are getting for the asking price.I think if you look at what is being offered by CLS, which is a bit better than the Default planes with some features and details you don't see in most freeware aircraft, then compare the price itis a good value for the price.>I'm really wondering a 30-40$ price tag gets accepted for next to zero Airbus feel and functionality. This Airbus functionality you refer to is really an advanced feature. Its not found in many products in that price range. It doesn't seem reasonable to expect that level of functionality in a $30 airliner add-on today. It just takes a lot of development effort to implement those type of systems in an FS add-on aircraft. So yeah the only real difference between a 'Lite' Airbus, and a 'lite' Boeing is the cockpits look a little different.I've heard what AirSimmer had to say about the potential price of their product, and they said it would be "less than $100". That would seem to imply its price will be 'near' $100. I think theywill be hard pressed to deliver something that will meet the expectations of people paying such a premium price for an add-on aircraft, we'll see. Look at the Overland Boeing package. That's $30 but you get 5 different aircraft models (737,747,767,777, MD11). Are any of them near CaptainSim ,LDS, and PMDG's level ?? No, not evenclose but the price isn't near their levels either. But they are fairly decent models to fly,and there are some additional details there above what you see in the default aircraft.Anyway way you slice it, that's a good bang for the buck.Regards.Ernie.

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Speedbyrd wrote:<< I mean their FDE's are tweaked to 'feel real', if that's possible on a desktop computer. I've never flown an A340 but based on other models I've flown, this one has that 'heavy, lumbering' feel that I would expect from a huge jet. They lift off easily, but require a LOT of room for maneuvering and it just a pleasure to "drive" <

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I can't compare CLS with POSKY products. I have never been a POSKY fan and even today I avoid them if there is something better. Their 747's just don't do it for me. Even with their updates, the planes have problems that I just can't get past. To iron out the problems is something I just don't want to deal with. CLS, SGA, Overland, etc. have a minimum of problems. There ready to fly and I have very few problems with any of those products. SGA DC-10's fde is a bit problematic in one area, but I've even got that worked out.

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>which details are we talking about? as far as I can see there>are a lot of freeware aicraft, panels and soundsets out there>whith which you can put together an package similar, or in>many cases superior to what CLS offers.Most freeware planes don't have virtual cockpits, and the gauges in CLS are custom gauges, many freeware planes generally use the stock default gauges.But really there's nothing done in the 'Lite' category or aircraft models that isn't done somewhere in one or several freeware add-ons. I think the difference is the entire CLS package, you don't normally see it all in one freeware add-on. Like you said, you could probably put some of em together in one package, but generally the are not in one package. There are however some notable exceptions (maltby'sBAC, iFly, Project Tupelov, Yannick's Falcon 50 etc), and some of these freeware products have a few features that exceed what you would get in CLS and other 'Lite' products.Probably part of the appeal of the CLS and Overland models is the packaging. You can avoid searching the file libraries to find a good freeware 777 or DC10, etc. Just buy the CLS package and install it its pretty good.>nope, but to be honest you get a lot more bang for your buck>then with any of the CLS packages (you get 7/8 aircraft btw,>if you include the subseries they modelled as well)>One could make that argument, I have both packages and I generally feel CLS is little better quality than Overland. But I think Overland does include more quantity at a lower price.>now don't get me wrong, I'm not mocking on people using CLS>aircraft ( I have a few myself) or on CLS themself, but I>personaly see them as nothing more then Posky goes payware,>which was al fine and dandy when they releassed their first>aircraft, but their prices have gone up conciderally and the>quality (especialy on the FDE front) is not enough to warrant>these prices IMHO.I think CLS is a little better than POSKY as an entire package as most POSKY models don't have virtual cockpits (and trend that could change in the coming years). But certainly there are parts of POSKY models that exceed what is in parts of the CLS products. But the difference again is the packaging.Regards.Ernie.

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Actually, if PMDG LDS and pilots' testimonials etc are any standard by which to judge, that 'lumbering feel' is quite the misnomer. Large aircraft apparently do not necessarily feel like lumbering whales, but are rather surprisingly responsive. Non fbw aircraft do however require more force than most expect on the yoke. It seems Warren sought to recreate this force by reducing control surface effectiveness. But that has the effect of drastically reducing roll rates and all that entails.At the end of the day though, afaic it is all moot - if 'heavy' tickles the imagination (it did mine once) have at it and have fun :) regards,Mark

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Since I can fly and seen the A330-300 flown in action, I can't comment but say unless it is flown (CLS) by a real A340 pilot and compared, then I can't say you are right or not.

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