A designer speaks out.... not everyone is perfect

[Brian_Gladden 0]

I have to say something here......... As a Designer I see alot of Bashing of designs from time to time. So you think a designer isn't good at Flight Dynamics.... Well Not many people are....it's a bit of a Black art and I only can brute force something to fly right in my air & cfg files. the panel not up to your personal standards? Well not everyone can make panels....It's few and far between to find a flight sim add on designer who is good at more than one or two of the separate disiplines. I make ok visual models, close enough flight models, so-so textures and I can do panel layouts fine but can't make the background bitmap worth a darn. I also make some ok scenery.What does this mean???? Not a thing.... I do it for fun, so do the other freeware designers. this is a hobby and far too many treat it like it's real life. that means they need to get a life. if it were not for freeware developers, all you would have is the default planes and scenery to fly with!If you don't like the way a plane flies, learn flight dynamics and help the designer out with a new flight model, Don't like the panel, learn photoshop or PSP, buy cfg edit and make one thats better. Textures too plain, learn to repaint. Don't like where a building is on an airport, Download Airport and fix it.My point here? Insead of bashing a designers work off hand, try to be helpfull, point out a shortfall you noticed. if you have some information on something share it. we designers are not masters of all things avation and may not know something that you do. Try your hand at making an add on yourself, Add to the comunity. Then maybe you won't be so quick to judge something that someone did initialy for themselves but decided to share with us ALLI'll get off my soapbox nowBrian

[Guest]

Seeing as how you chose to raise this as a separate thread, rather than leaving it in the thread where it began so it might be read in context, might I direct you and other forum visitors to my reply.http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID8/19188.html#15I think that, for once, you may have judged a bit too soon, Brian. I personally make a distinction between freeware and payware. It is shameful that some payware developers choose to abuse the privilege of `freeware`. ChasW

[Guest SoarPics]

"I'll get off my soapbox now"It's OK Brian. You've been doing this long enough and contributed so much that no one will fault you for being more than a little miffed about the troll thread Scott wisely removed.I was gonna lite up the guy too, but enough people here were putting him in his place.Mike chooses not to spend time here anymore, and we should all respect his decision. That doesn't mean the folks who call Avsim home should put up with someone bashing his freeware contributions. No wonder the poor guy gets frustrated.Regards,

[Donmo 6]

With you 100% on all you have said Brian.Don

[Brian_Gladden 0]

The reason I moved it was because it didn't apply just to Samdim's AN-24.... but to all designs and the slamming going on around here. And I think you missed my point. I wanted to point out that there is alot that goes into any add on. Not every designer is a Steve Small or Mikko Malenimi or Richard Goldstine. But they all freely give something back to the community as a whole. and all I ask is that people keep that in mind when they see a problem with any uploaded project. I wanted to address that from the designers viewpoint (at least my veiwpoint on the issue)As for the "preview" of the payware AN-24, well it's a preview of the visual model and it's free. Also the name Freeware isn't a "privilege" it's a legal term. If the software doesn't cost anything..... Its Freeware.Brian

[Guest frankcubillos]

Amen! :-beerchug---Banners? We don't need no stinkin' banners!---Visualize ProjectAI sig banner here.

[Guest]

No, I don't think I missed your point. I just thought your timing and placing of that point was a litle inappropriate, spurred as it was by being a reply to the AN24 thread, when it is quite clear that you are actually referring to the now-deleted thread from earlier.Two very different issues. Ironically I agree with you completely if your post was a reply to the latter. But your liberal interpretation of freeware will come back to haunt you, I fear. Sub-standard payware knowingly farmed out to the unsuspecting masses as freeware is not the same thing as poor quality freeware from a would-be designer who has done his/her best. One deserves support and assistance, the other public discovery and shaming. To treat both equally is to show contempt for the best efforts of the genuine freeware developer. ChasW

[crvm 0]

While it's ok to give your personal opine as regards to any package either freeware or payware, the issue seems more to be just how you go about doing it. Calling someone's work "Rubbish" etc is not the best choice of words and does nothing but make people a little upset. Why not say... I think that the technology has increased to a point where we can expect better graphics etc?... Your other statement "...shameful that some payware developers choose to abuse the privilege of `freeware`"... is out of place too. I was not aware of the list of privileges to payware developers who also distrubute freeware? If anything this is a very good thing because in this case you can judge the payware version by the freeware. Don't care for it? Don't buy it. Don't like the freeware version? Don't download it. We are very capable of knowing weather something is good enough for ourselves without a spokesperson speaking for the users here'. Best Wishes, Randy J. Smith [h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

[1mikel151 71]

Seeing as you have 'trashed" someones design with inappropriate wording and attitude (IMO), it probably won't make it to the payware point, or even another freeware effort, which is probably fine by you.You seem justified in your actions and there is probably nothing anyone can say to make you think differently about your postJust goes to show there is always one in every bunch.I can think of plenty of downloads that have not come close to what I expected (even payware), but I never trash that person in public for his efforts. I either go to the author directly with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism or in the case of payware, chalk it up to experience, bottom line, lots of ways to handle something not living up to your expectations,... bashing the person's efforts is not one of them! My 2 cents!Regards, Michael

[Guest]

>> While it's ok to give your personal opine as regards to >any package either freeware or payware, the issue >seems more to be just how you go about doing it. >Calling someone's work "Rubbish" etc is not the best choice >of words and does nothing but make people a little upset. >Why not say... I think that the technology has increased to >a point where we can expect better graphics etc?... OK, so to be polite (but not make any less of a criticism). I fear the flight model has no representation of the real thing, based as it is on an FS98 air file modified for use by strange amendments in the FS2002 cfg file. The sounds too, are substantially below par for a quality release, especially as other sounds have been available for some time that could have been modified for use with little or no effort on the part of the developers. Is it beyond the realms of expectation that a developer could actually check files for corruption before uploading them to an unsuspecting file library and inflicting the errors upon dozens of unsuspecting simmers, many of whom may have spent some considerable time downloading the unnecessarily large file size, only to find that the download contains errors? Twice.Oh, and I wonder what happened to the load configuration editor that was such a feature of the previous Antonov 24 release? Keen as mustard to point out the opening doors and windows, the developers must have forgot to put that feature in to the new version. So much for politeness.> Your other statement "...shameful that some payware >developers choose to abuse the privilege of `freeware`"... >is out of place too. I was not aware of the list of >privileges to payware developers who also distrubute >freeware? Your sitting in a forum which specifically prohibits the promotion of payware supported elsewhere. The right to talk about freeware is what this forum is for. Perhaps when the AN24 group have their own forum and support site we will have no need of this kind of shameful behaviour as the thread will simply be locked and removed? Quite why Avsim are even hosting such a file is a question the library masters might want to consider. Well, unless Avsim will also be hosting the support and sale of the commercial product?>If anything this is a very good thing because in >this case you can judge the payware version by the freeware. >Don't care for it? Don't buy it. Don't like the freeware >version? Don't download it. We are very capable of knowing >weather something is good enough for ourselves without a >spokesperson speaking for the users here'. How do I know that I dont care for it if someone doesn't tell me the truth about it? How do I know the truth about a freeware download unless and until I download it - or someone tells me about it?No, I'm confused by that. A forum is by nature a place where ideas and comments are exchanged. You seem to want a silent room where no-one says anything to anyone else for fear of upsetting them. That's a morgue. ChasW

[crvm 0]

Don't take me the wrong way please. You just might be 100% correct in your opinion as regards to this aircraft package. All I am saying is don't come across in such a disrespectful manner by your speech, that's all. I feel that people's opinions about any aircraft are important for my choice in purchase etc. Give you an example here. I downloaded a certain aircraft off of the Library yesterday and gave it a whril. This is a MD 80 type mind you by a well know developer. I was able to do 30+ loops at FL 100' in this aircraft with crash and stress detection! So, should I get on here like I have a personal problem with this package and attack the developer? If someone asks me I will tell them what I found but would leave the extra personal comments to myself. And even if I did do a post stating what I thought, I would make sure that I did it respectively regardless if the developer is not. Best Wishes, Randy J. Smith [h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

[Guest Dee Waldron]

And another designer agree's with Brian.Dee Waldron (HJG)

[Guest]

And a ex-designer agree's with Brian!.....Rick Sasala

[Guest]

You obviously recognise yourself in the message or you'd not respond so violently...Brian is completely correct, he describes exactly why many freeware designers give up.There is a small number of people that don't appreciate their work and continuously bash them for every flaw (real or perceived) in their work without ever even trying to help fix those flaws (or often even to find out whether they really are flaws at all).That's also the reason ever more commercial groups are cutting down on support. They just can't handle the deluge of flames sent to them by a small group of people (many of them not even customers. The amount of support demands (usually shouted) and flames received from people using pirated versions is staggering).Such attitudes are pathetic and can only come from either very childish people or people who have an intention to destroy the addon market for some reason.If you think there's something wrong with a product (commercial or no) why not simply contact the author in private and point out the flaws in civilised language (preferably with data to support your claim and/or ways to fix it)?Why scream out loud in public forums unless you have nothing to support your claims in which case you should remain silent until you do (and even after that remain civilised).There's people at the end of them there email addresses and forums. You're deliberately hurting those people emotionally (and in the case of commercial groups financially) because of some perceived flaw in the placement of an antenna or the landing speed being one knot different from what you think it should be....

[Guest]

And another one who decided to not even try (did start out on several things, in part because of the constant harassment and bashing of designers I decided to quit before release)...