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betelgeuse

O/c Amd 2.5 Ghz

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Before I go the upgrade route I'd like to see if I can squeeze extra performance from my present system (FS9 only). I have no experience of overclocking and most what I've read about it is gobbledegook to me. Present system:AMD Athlon 64 2.5 GHz (+4000 San Diego)Asus A8N32 SLI Deluxe (Bios from 2005)Single 7800 GTX 256 MBXP Pro Service Pack 3Plenty of HDD 7200 rpmWide FS for addon Wx etc17 inch Viewsonic E92f+ CRT monitor When I upgraded to the existing CPU several years ago the bloke on eBay told me it was ideal for O/C. If someone could tell me exactly what to do in the BIOS I'd give it a try. But I have neither the will or the brain power to unravel all the physics. :(

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Before I go the upgrade route I'd like to see if I can squeeze extra performance from my present system (FS9 only). I have no experience of overclocking and most what I've read about it is gobbledegook to me. Present system:AMD Athlon 64 2.5 GHz (+4000 San Diego)Asus A8N32 SLI Deluxe (Bios from 2005)Single 7800 GTX 256 MBXP Pro Service Pack 3Plenty of HDD 7200 rpmWide FS for addon Wx etc17 inch Viewsonic E92f+ CRT monitor When I upgraded to the existing CPU several years ago the bloke on eBay told me it was ideal for O/C. If someone could tell me exactly what to do in the BIOS I'd give it a try. But I have neither the will or the brain power to unravel all the physics. :(
Trying to relay to you what to do 'exactly' over the internet, even if that 'exact' data is coming from a professional, is dangerousOverclocking is an art and a science. It requires experience and any clock is trial and error even for a pro. I really hesitate to post clocking to you simply because of the variables involved and your lack of experienceI can tell you this... You will see an improvement assuming you clock correctly however even if you manage to get that processor and memory clocked up to its max potential and even if you get that processor up to 3+GHz you will never, ever see the same performance as a 1.8-2.2Ghz Intel Core2 processor.... That being said you can spend your time using that system to learn clocking with a limited result which will never get you as far as a replacement tower running i7 or even older Core2 technologyAlso, clocking AMD is different than clocking Intel. So after you learn the AMD method, you would have to turn around and learn the Intel methodAnd, With AMD the motherboard you are running and its BIOS may be different from board to board. Back then there was more to clocking than just understanding the ins/outs... you also had to study the BIOS and learn which settings did the same thing from another board even though they were not labeled the same... and the BIOS math behind the memory divider settings for calculations tends to fluctuate based on the board and BIOS programmer. Given all that, I am going to post a link to clocking AMD on a Asus A8V Deluxe motherboard. WARNING: The A8V BIOS is not the same as yours and there will be differences in settings so you can NOT simply duplicate everything you see... however, there is a section on AMD overclocking in that write-up and you can get information FROM that to learn how clocks are calculated with AMDYou assume the risks when you try such things.You may want to do some googling about your exact motherboard/Processor/memory and overclocking those parts to obtain specs on them and find out what others are getting with the components, and, the BIOS settings in playWARNING: Overclocking a CPU will usually require a CPU heatsink and fan upgrade... some clocking can be done on the HSF provided with the processor however those heatsinks ARE NOT designed for overclocking and one must purchase a HSF unit which can withstand the increased heat brought on by voltage changesThe Zalman CNPs 9700 are good for AMD Here is the link to AMD clocking on a A8V Deluxehttp://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...p;#entry1347459The overclocking information is at the end of the list however I suggest you read the entire post and if you do not wish to risk what you have then I suggest you not attempt it

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Thanks very much for taking the trouble to spell all this out to me. I will investigate further as you suggest. I realise that I will not be able to squeeze Intel Core 2 performance of out the Athlon - as you say 'never, ever'. But now is maybe the time to dip my toe in the o/c water and see where it leads. I have a Zalman heatsink/fan and it's freezing in here! Brrr!Will post later if I progress. Thanks again.John

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Thanks very much for taking the trouble to spell all this out to me. I will investigate further as you suggest. I realise that I will not be able to squeeze Intel Core 2 performance of out the Athlon - as you say 'never, ever'. But now is maybe the time to dip my toe in the o/c water and see where it leads. I have a Zalman heatsink/fan and it's freezing in here! Brrr!Will post later if I progress. Thanks again.John
John with the forum software change there appeared to be a few errors in that post.. I just edited it to fix the glitches so if you copied the post you may want to re-copy it now

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That particular motherboad can be very finicky about overclocking, depending on the BIOS revision used. If you have difficulty overclocking, I suggest you update your BIOS. A bit of nit-picking here, but relevant because you're going to be overclocking: the San Diego 4000+ has a default clockspeed of 2.4GHz, rather than 2.5GHz. I have a friend that used the exact same motherboard and processor (and a Zalman 7700) to o/c up to 2.8GHz. 3GHz was achievable, but not stable.

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Updating the BIOS isn't simple for me. This particular mobo has American Megatrends BIOS. I cannot find an install guide for it on the Asus site or the American Megatrends site. I have downloaded a file which seems to be the latest approved BIOS: A8N321303.ROM. There is a beta later but I would be even more nervous about using it. What to do? And what to do if I attempt upgrading and end up with BSOD or worse? Is there a way back?

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Updating the BIOS isn't simple for me. This particular mobo has American Megatrends BIOS. I cannot find an install guide for it on the Asus site or the American Megatrends site. I have downloaded a file which seems to be the latest approved BIOS: A8N321303.ROM. There is a beta later but I would be even more nervous about using it. What to do? And what to do if I attempt upgrading and end up with BSOD or worse? Is there a way back?
BSOD in a borked BIOS issue would be the least of your problemsTo a newbie I must say this... Dont mess with a BIOS flash unless you know what you are doing.. there is no recovery from a bad flash on those old boards without a device called a BIOS SAVIOR and the system wont boot anymoreIn those days even I held my breath when I flashed a BIOSEven if the flash is working perfectly, if you were to lose power for any reason during that flash it would hose the BIOS chip... no bootI really think you should probably upgrade and keep this tower as a play-toy to practice on... diving into things like this on your only means of computer can be a disaster if something goes wrong. If you have another system then there is no loss, just a learning experience.You can end up with BSODs from clocking on the wrong settings and voltage values.. comes with the territory and when you get them one must learn what to do, what changes to make to stabilizeBIOS flash instructions should be in your manual after the motherboard installation section. Some boards come with a BOOT BLOCK BIOS feature that allows a emergency flash to revert to the factory installed BIOS by using the CD and boot the computer with the CD in the drive hitting ALT-F2 which the computer attemps to boot... others do not have that feature. If you do attempt a flash, once the flashing starts (the actual flash of new code) you can not shut the computer down or stop the flash for any reason what so ever!

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I've done more BIOS flashes from floppy than by any other method, and never had a problem. In all my years of servicing and using PCs, I've never seen a failed BIOS flash personally. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying that chances are extremely slim. There's cautious, and then there's overly-cautious. Just follow the instructions and you'll do fine.

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I've done more BIOS flashes from floppy than by any other method, and never had a problem. In all my years of servicing and using PCs, I've never seen a failed BIOS flash personally. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying that chances are extremely slim. There's cautious, and then there's overly-cautious. Just follow the instructions and you'll do fine.
He most likely will not have a problemassuming he did select the right BIOS file, he does follow technical protocol that may or may not be printed in the manual and knows what to do if something goes a-miss in the processIn exampleI dont know if his house or area is prone to power failures or if he is on a APC unit... do you? He needs to know what happens if the power goes out.When I post something technical and that information has any potential to remove the use of someones computer from them because of my advice I always make sure they are aware of the risks and I am not overly cautious in my postsWhat I posted was to let the person know a BIOS flash can result in a dead system if something goes wrong which is why Asus posts this warning when you download a file:Please note, BIOS update is only recommended when experiencing technical difficulties with your system, And is not recommended to be performed regularly.Moreover, due to the nature of BIOS update, there is certain level of dangers involved. BIOS update must be performed with extreme caution . During BIOS update process, your system must be maintained without interference or power loss to prevent unexpected damage.In case of BIOS update failure, please follow instructions in your User's Manual for guidelines on BIOS recovery via CrashFree BIOS. In the event that BIOS recovery is not recoverable via CrashFree BIOS, please contact your place of purchase for further assistance on BIOS recovery.They dont post that to be overly cautious and older boards do not have crash free BIOS supportIt can happen, it does happen... rare as it is the person who is being advised deserves to know all the facts before they attempt the procedure and since they may not know the right questions to ask.. I answer all of them up frontI do not call that overly cautious.. I call it being responsible :(If he was a tech, someone who had done a flash many times before and was experienced and at the very least was not completely new to the processes it would be different. He said he has absolutely no experience at clocking and flashing.. he deserves to know the risk factor no matter how small as it may be

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When there's a chance of something occuring which is between 0 and 100% (meaning the outcome is not known before hand), one has to weigh the probability of occurrence when considering the correct course of action. In this case, the probability is so low as to not be worthy of such extreme caution. Again, I've never seen a failed BIOS flash and I've done hundreds of them, perhaps thousands. No special expertise is necessary to perform a BIOS flash. If one can read and follow very simple instructions, they can flash their own BIOS. As for the power going out and aborting the flash procedure, I'd be more concerned about a power outtage during heavy disk access. Motherboards can be replaced, the same is not always true of data. Anyway, let's not make some big deal out of this, the OP has been cautioned, it's up to him to decide what to do from here.

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When there's a chance of something occuring which is between 0 and 100% (meaning the outcome is not known before hand), one has to weigh the probability of occurrence when considering the correct course of action. In this case, the probability is so low as to not be worthy of such extreme caution. Again, I've never seen a failed BIOS flash and I've done hundreds of them, perhaps thousands. No special expertise is necessary to perform a BIOS flash. If one can read and follow very simple instructions, they can flash their own BIOS. As for the power going out and aborting the flash procedure, I'd be more concerned about a power outtage during heavy disk access. Motherboards can be replaced, the same is not always true of data. Anyway, let's not make some big deal out of this, the OP has been cautioned, it's up to him to decide what to do from here.
I haveI have personally seen at least 10 flaky BIOS flashes in the last 8 years none of which I lost the system because I was prepared, and, being the cheif cook and bottle wash at several hardware sites/forums over the years I have watched it happen over and over againIm not going to get into a match about the % of potential danger becasue that potential is like a roll of the dice with -one- combination in that roll being the bad one for the system.. the uniformed user needs the information they would not know to ask about to make a decision for themself to proceed, thats allI did not make a big deal out of it.. or belittle or reduce the consequences to what sound like a 1-10 million possibilityTim (tfm) a member here just went through a failed BIOS flash recently and the only reason he recovered was because the board he has incorporates a backup BIOS chip I simply stated facts

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Guys! Please don't fall out over me! Not good at all. I got great advice here from both sides so now it's up to me. I have a back up PC - even older - Athlon XP 1.2 GHz Barton (Socket A) which still runs fast enough for WP, Internet etc. Also, if I mess up with the BIOS update I can buy a new Athlon 64 2.4 GHz 4000+ San Diego very cheaply on eBay. I'd be grateful if you could check out what I plan to do. I've read the Asus mobo manual, and I've downloaded the latest BIOS update. As you will know there are various methods of updating and I plan to use the ASUS EZ Flash utility. For this to work I must have the BIOS file on a 'floppy' but I guess a USB stick will be fine. I suppose I will have to re-set the existing BIOS to run the USB drive (:L) first?? I don't have a floppy drive on my PC. During the POST routine I must press <ALT> + <F2> to autostart the flash process. I live in UK and I cannot remember the last time we had a power cut in our area, so, hopefully this should not be an issue. Thanks again to all for advice, cautionary or otherwise. John

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Guys! Please don't fall out over me! Not good at all. I got great advice here from both sides so now it's up to me. I have a back up PC - even older - Athlon XP 1.2 GHz Barton (Socket A) which still runs fast enough for WP, Internet etc. Also, if I mess up with the BIOS update I can buy a new Athlon 64 2.4 GHz 4000+ San Diego very cheaply on eBay. I'd be grateful if you could check out what I plan to do. I've read the Asus mobo manual, and I've downloaded the latest BIOS update. As you will know there are various methods of updating and I plan to use the ASUS EZ Flash utility. For this to work I must have the BIOS file on a 'floppy' but I guess a USB stick will be fine. I suppose I will have to re-set the existing BIOS to run the USB drive (:L) first?? I don't have a floppy drive on my PC. During the POST routine I must press <ALT> + <F2> to autostart the flash process. I live in UK and I cannot remember the last time we had a power cut in our area, so, hopefully this should not be an issue. Thanks again to all for advice, cautionary or otherwise. John
LOLDon't sweat it John, I certainly dontBut I do like to make sure all the info is there for you to make an informed decision prior to moving forward. Many only have one tower and if anything goes wrong they would be left without a system till a replacement or repair.Moving on... Modern Asus boards accept a USB stick in place of a floppy. I have not looked at your manual or your board so I do not know if that is true for your system. Does the manual indicate a USB stick can be used? The Asus EZ flash system at boot is the way to perform the job and you are correct about how it is accessed.If you downloaded the BIOS file in zip format it must be unzipped and the BIOS file itself placed on the floppy or USB stick. I usually rename the file to something I will remember easy if the file name is long however the extension must always be .ROMIn example, If I download a BIOS and its filename is AP5K1018.rom I may simply rename it: 1018.ROM and store it (back up) for future use if needed in a folder named for the motherboard it is designed for. That is up to you but the extension must remain the same as the downloaded file.Before actually flashing you can enter that utility and look it over. Get acquainted with how it works and how to get through the options. At the same time you could also see if your USB stick will be recognizedWhen you actually perform the flash I do suggest the following to be sure the new BIOS initializes correctly:1. After the flash tool is finished it will indicate a reboot.. let it do so but then power down and unplug the tower from the wall. 2. Open the tower and reset the CMOS using the jumper (should be listed as CLRTC) from the manual.. move the jumper to the clear position and then back to the run position. 3. Close the tower, plug it back into the wall and boot up,,.. you will most likely get an error.. simply enter the BIOS, go to the EXIT menu and select LOAD SETUP DEFAULTS. Allow that to take place then hit F-10 SAVE AND EXIT. 4. On Reboot enter the BIOS and set it up correctly to include date/time.You may wish to take a good look at your BIOS now, before flashing going through each menu and noting the settings in the manual so you have a base to reset it back up after the flash. I do not know if you or someone else has made settings changes in that BIOS for things like boot sequence, boot drive, fan control, etc.. and a flash even without a reset as I listed above can wipe the settings clean or install changes. You need to verify your current settings so everything is returned running operation after the flash.

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Hm....Asus EZ couldn't find the USB stick. The mobo was designed before USB sticks were heard of and there is no ref to them in the manual. I have no intention of installing a floppy drive just to update the BIOS. Can I just go ahead with o/c using the old BIOS and a new heatsink/fan? John

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Might as well try. The real claim to fame of the Core2s over the Athlons was their headroom and price. They were (are) cheaper and will overclock further. A core2 at a stock 2.4 will go to 3.6. The best you could ever hope for is an O/C to ~ 2.7ish. 10% is about all you're gonna get, bios update or not. 20FPS goes to 22 (or 50 goes to 55). So primarily, it's all just for fun anyway. See what happens. However clock for clock, there's really only a ~ 20% difference between an Athlon and a Core2. That Athlon at 2.5 will run with a Core2 at ~ 2.2 in FS9. For FS9, that's still a pretty competent chip.

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