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barryward12345

Request Dash 8 airspeed management tips

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Hi, folks-I'm transitioning from Dreamfleet's 737 (which I flew continuously for about a year and a half) to PSS's Dash 8. Most things are going well, but I'm looking for some tips on airspeed managment in the Dash since I was spoiled by the 737's IAS autothrottle mode.I have some specific questions:1) I'm not missing anything obvious- there is no speed hold (except IAS hold while climbing)?2) The easiest possibility is to use max RPM on the condition levers all the time and control speed via torque. This doesn't feel right to me, though. What's wrong with this approach?3) I've held cruise speed successfully by setting the torque to 92% and using the condition levers to keep speed near VMo. It takes a long time (~10 minutes each heading/wind change) for me to stabilize, though- is this the preferred method and are there any tips for this?4) I get wild speed variations during descents as I try to stabilize everything at a suitable airspeed. Does anyone have any tips for doing this more gracefully?Thanks in advance for any advice. I'm really enjoying the challenge of this beautiful turboprop!-Simon

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I have had similar frustrations with the Dash 8. It seems that my inexpensive throttle controller just can't seem to make the minor adjustments necessary to keep this bird on the glideslope. My only suggestion is to play around with the sensitivity of your throttle and calibrate it within fsuipc. I was never able to get it perfect, but I can at least control it a little better.

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>I have had similar frustrations with the Dash 8. It seems >that my inexpensive throttle controller just can't seem to >make the minor adjustments necessary to keep this bird on >the glideslope.The way I got around that is to set Page Up/Down to trim, Home/End to Condition (had to use mixture IIRC) and Insert/Delete to throttle. That way I can make very fine adjustments in cruise (although I'm still feeling out the best adjustments to make) and use my throttle control for the larger adjustments needed in approach. Approach adjustments haven't been too much of a problem for me- condition levers to max, and throttle for descent rate. Decents prior to approach are tough, though- I find my airspeed swinging from 240 to 180 and back again depending on how long the descent is and how well I finesse the throttle.I'm still stuck not knowing what adjustments to make in cruise, though- I have a feeling I need to use condition rather than throttle to control cruise speed, but I'm not sure why.-Simon

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Download Oleksiy Frolovs' Version 1.04 (plus update 1.04a) of the Dash 8-300Q and fly the sample flight included in the download. However, this aircraft is unlike most Fsim aircraft in that its aircraft systems are extremely true to life and you have to follow the sample flight instructions to the letter (and read the system information manuals) to be able to fly it. Simple questions like " there is something wrong with this aircraft - I can't get it to lift off the runway " indicates that the questioner has not read the instructions!! ")Barry

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Here's my method so far-Takeoff roll- condition max, torque to 92%Climb- same- adjust rate to maintain desired airspeedCruise- reduce condition levers to maintain desired airspeed- use throttle to keep torque at 92%Descent- condition max- use throttle to maintain desired airspeedApproach- condition max- throttle to maintain rate of descentCan anyone comment on this procedure for the Dash 8? Am I on the right track?Thanks,Simon

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I have roughly 900 hours on the dash-8 and 75% of that is the 300. That said, I can tell you what is done at our operation on the line. Most approaches are flown at 900 RPM until the flpas are brought down then the condition (same as prop lvr for d8) are brought to 1050 and the descent managed by power lever only.A typical ILS would be 1 1/2 dots above (158 kts or less) GEAR DOWN. at 1/2 dot above the slope (149) or less, FLAP 15. Flap 15 is what we use for landings most of the time. The dash-8 300s at 40000(max landing weight)for 301 and 311 series generaly ref at around 120 knots in this configuration. Personally I prefer to approach at 130ish for those "squeaker" that are so tough to find in a -8. The 300's are pitch limited to 6 degrees on touchdown so as not to have a tail strike if you were to pound one on. Flap 35 landings do decrease the appraoch speed considerably but pulling the power off in the flare will result in either a tail low or hard landing as the speed bleeds very quickly in this configuration. The dash has tendancy to either fly or just stop flying. By that I mean that once you are in the flare and the speed starts coming off, if you haven't carried a little extra, it just sort of falls onto the runway with a "PLUNK".Having tried the PSS D8, I have noticed that between idle torque and about 40%, it does not take much throttle movement to make the torque move a great deal. I found it a little tough to maintain a set speed but it can be done with very very small adjustment to the throttle. Otherwise, it is by far the most detailed and accurate D8 on the simming market.Hope this helps.

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I have just flown the 300 sim and found that at 130 kts(max gross) and 15 flap that the airplane sits almost 5 degrees nose up. If you want to make things easy as far as what speed etc..., just set flap and power so that when on the glideslope you are roughly 0 to 2 degrees nose up. With that attitude and maintining the glideslope, whatever speed you end up with will allow you to properly slow the plane down in the flare and land before you hit 6 degrees nose up.

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>I have roughly 900 hours on the dash-8 and 75% of that is >the 300. >>Having tried the PSS D8, I have noticed that between idle >torque and about 40%, it does not take much throttle >movement to make the torque move a great deal. I found it a >little tough to maintain a set speed but it can be done with >very very small adjustment to the throttle. Otherwise, it is >by far the most detailed and accurate D8 on the simming >market. BUT - have you tried the Frolov Dash8-300Q. I believe that it has been designed using the input of a couple of European Dash8 pilots. The panel,aircraft systems, sounds and flight characteristics are supposedly "spot-on". I use the inverted commas because I am not a Dash8 pilot -- it would be interesting to hear your comments if you have tried it. But you will need your real life procedures to start , taxi and fly the aircraft!! :)Barry

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>I have roughly 900 hours on the dash-8 and 75% of that is >the 300. That said, I can tell you what is done at our >operation on the line. Most approaches are flown at 900 RPM >until the flpas are brought down then the condition (same as >prop lvr for d8) are brought to 1050 and the descent managed >by power lever only.This is very helpful! I presume the primary reason for the lower RPMs during flight (as opposed to flying with the condition levers at max) are lower noise and vibration and perhaps lower wear and tear on the moving parts of the prop unit? Are there any fuel benefits to lower RPMs or is it the same rate of consumption?-Simon

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I can't comment on the wear and tear as I am not an engineer, but noise is the biggest factor. At Max RPM, the -8 is quite loud. Even 1050 is loud compared to 900 rpm. 900 RPM is normal cruise for and the plane tends to settle into a nice groaning sound that tends to put children and pilots asleep. LOL The 300 series are quite a bit quieter in the cockpit because of the distance from the props compared to the 100s. Now that the "Q" models are comin out this becomes less of a problem. On take off we use 1200 rpm and once we are at flap retraction altitude, we use either 900 or 1050 for climb depending on the conditons. Icing is one condition where 1050 would be used to minimize your exposure to airframe icing. The dash8s handle ice very well, but once you have a certain amount in areas that are unprotected and your props begin losing efficiency due to ice build up, the 100's especially have a tough time climbing. If you stay in the ice(moderate or worse), eventually the planes actual ceiling will degrade rapidly. If 1050 on the props and a speed of 10-160 won't get you out of the ice, you shouldn't have been there in the 1st place.Lower RPM is better on fuel but the biggest fuel saver (wind not taken into account) is altitude. There is a considerable drop in Fuel flows between SL and 15-20k. SOme operations even taxi with engine feathered because in the end it saves fuel. What it costs them in nosewheel steering is another matter.Hope this helps. Cheers

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barryward,I am downloading the Frolov D8 now. Gonna give her a spin.

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>barryward, >>I am downloading the Frolov D8 now. Gonna give her a spin. Interested to hear what you have to say -- make sure you download the version 1.04 plus the patch 1.04a. And use a screen res higher than 1024x768 as he puts a lot of stuff on the screen and the lettering is a bit small.Barry

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