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Kosta

Seagate 7200 -> WD VRap 300GB

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Contemplating if to do it or not. Money doesn't grow on trees, especially not in times like these, though I have been thinking if to upgrade or not.How much performance boost can I expect?1) Less stuttering?2) How much faster loading?3) On landing something it stutters, maybe because it loads sounds at that moment, can I expect that to be smoother?4) Faster loading of textures while in flight?I just want to know if it would be justified to pay 260

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Contemplating if to do it or not. Money doesn't grow on trees, especially not in times like these, though I have been thinking if to upgrade or not.How much performance boost can I expect?1) Less stuttering?2) How much faster loading?3) On landing something it stutters, maybe because it loads sounds at that moment, can I expect that to be smoother?4) Faster loading of textures while in flight?I just want to know if it would be justified to pay 260

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You have to have the other HW components to go along with it, and it looks like you do. Hands Down the Velociraptor. Don't give it a second thought. Not only is it THE fastest bestest drive for FSX right now but it will run around 7 to 10 degrees cooler than those other drives. FSX is massively random access and the 10,000rpm plus the drive geometry make it work better than anything else. Until the SDDs are up to par (fast, reliable, 300+ Gb size) the Vraptor is King.-jk

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Thanks for your replies: and for the record, its not FSX, but FS9. But I guess it's the same thing.

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Thanks for your replies: and for the record, its not FSX, but FS9. But I guess it's the same thing.
Actually not that same thing. FSX is way worse. Get the Vrap and you're set for anything! :( -jk

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I guess having 474,080 files in my FS9 installation qualifies...

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W000000t!!!!! Incredible.... I just got me a 150GB VRap, 300GB isn't really necessary - besides, in the future, I intend buying a SATA Card as Nick advised, and maybe a 2nd drive for FSX. Shall see...The performance increase is majorly noticable - highlights would be beside obvious shorther loading times, faster plane selection in FS9 menu, quicker VC texture load, huge increase on Digital Aviation's Fokker original texture (horribly big textures, slow load on 7200rpm), and much smoother view changes.I will be observing actual flight performance and landing behaviour in the next days, I might post some results :)Nick and everyone else, thanks for good advice.

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W000000t!!!!! Incredible.... I just got me a 150GB VRap, 300GB isn't really necessary - besides, in the future, I intend buying a SATA Card as Nick advised, and maybe a 2nd drive for FSX. Shall see...The performance increase is majorly noticable - highlights would be beside obvious shorther loading times, faster plane selection in FS9 menu, quicker VC texture load, huge increase on Digital Aviation's Fokker original texture (horribly big textures, slow load on 7200rpm), and much smoother view changes.I will be observing actual flight performance and landing behaviour in the next days, I might post some results :)Nick and everyone else, thanks for good advice.
you are entering a new area of additional support performance, enjoy It all adds upbe warned, we do not miss what we have never used.. but once you have seen the difference you wont ever go back to standard hardware :(do try not to exceed 65% capacity. Free space on a hard drive does effect performance. I typically replace/upgrade drives that have 35% or less free space remaining. 25% is my rock bottom allowance. Past that point storage performance starts falling VERY fast and you lose the value in the purchase which is one of the reasons I always grab the larger platter.. there is no such thing as 'too much free space" being a bad thing.. it's actually better!and Noooooooooooooooooooooo partitions!good luck

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139avail - 55free, I guess that is OK for now. I don't know how long I'm gonna keep it, but I don't see it going much over 100GB. I decided to buy the 150GB Vrap, there were 95 reasons for that. If I want to install FSX, then I will get another one. And the card might enter the game at some point.Partitions I got on my other drives, but not on the Vrap.

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Is it normal that my Vrap is having a high frequency pitch noise? I hear it above all my 3 other 7200 Seagates. And to be honest, even for the fact that it's in the watercooled box, which should make it more silent, I still hear it, and its kinda annoying...

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Is it normal that my Vrap is having a high frequency pitch noise? I hear it above all my 3 other 7200 Seagates. And to be honest, even for the fact that it's in the watercooled box, which should make it more silent, I still hear it, and its kinda annoying...
The older WD Raptors were known for noise during random access however the Vraps I have are nearly silent.. Much less noise than all other drives in my systems

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The older WD Raptors were known for noise during random access however the Vraps I have are nearly silent.. Much less noise than all other drives in my systems
The noise is high pitched, not a typical drive "surring"... Maybe that's something what's normal on Vraps. I exchanged the drive where I got it, the other one sounds exactly the same. I managed to block the sound, but am worried about the heat:Its like this:I have watercooling as already mentioned, so my drives are mounted in the Silentstar Dual HDD Box from Watercool, and have always functioned very good and were cool. If I put the Vrap into the box, I would still hear this noise. So I tried couple of options, like covering the disk over the platter with my hand while on, and the sound faded away, pretty miraculously. So, I was searching for something I had at home, to mount inbetween the drives, to block the sound.Eventually all I found were couple of dish-cleaning tissues, which are out of similar material as some silencing pads for noise-reduction. So I squeezed them in between the seagate and WD, and voila - no more noise.I am only worried about temperatures, which seem very good actually - 30-32C on both drives (measured in Everest), and also that something doesn't happen like fire or similar. I hope that if Everest shows 32C, that is ok to keep me in green area.

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The noise is high pitched, not a typical drive "surring"... Maybe that's something what's normal on Vraps. I exchanged the drive where I got it, the other one sounds exactly the same. I managed to block the sound, but am worried about the heat:Its like this:I have watercooling as already mentioned, so my drives are mounted in the Silentstar Dual HDD Box from Watercool, and have always functioned very good and were cool. If I put the Vrap into the box, I would still hear this noise. So I tried couple of options, like covering the disk over the platter with my hand while on, and the sound faded away, pretty miraculously. So, I was searching for something I had at home, to mount inbetween the drives, to block the sound.Eventually all I found were couple of dish-cleaning tissues, which are out of similar material as some silencing pads for noise-reduction. So I squeezed them in between the seagate and WD, and voila - no more noise.I am only worried about temperatures, which seem very good actually - 30-32C on both drives (measured in Everest), and also that something doesn't happen like fire or similar. I hope that if Everest shows 32C, that is ok to keep me in green area.
I have never used the 150GB unit but I would not think the design would be any different. I can not hear my 3 Vraps at all unless I put my ear down by the tower and even then the sound is nothing like a high pitch squeal. My towers have rubber insulating strips which insulate the drive from the metal of the quick release carriage when mounted which may make a difference and all my towers are nearly dead silent unless I am using the system for CPU/GPU intense applications. I can hear the two backup drives without leaning down which are typical SATA's.Your drive temp is fine.. no problem there. The 1st gen Raptors would tend to sit around 43-48c

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I have never used the 150GB unit but I would not think the design would be any different. I can not hear my 3 Vraps at all unless I put my ear down by the tower and even then the sound is nothing like a high pitch squeal. My towers have rubber insulating strips which insulate the drive from the metal of the quick release carriage when mounted which may make a difference and all my towers are nearly dead silent unless I am using the system for CPU/GPU intense applications. I can hear the two backup drives without leaning down which are typical SATA's.Your drive temp is fine.. no problem there. The 1st gen Raptors would tend to sit around 43-48c
Interesting. Well, might be that my ears are a bit more sensitive, and I hear this noise. In the shop where we tested both drives, I could barely hear it, but still, I could hear it. I took the other one just for the sake of nerving the salesman, so I guess all is ok.I isolated it, I will possibly buy some non-burning material to be sure everything is alright.Thanks for your help!

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Nick, sorry to bother you again, since you have all the experience, could you just tell me, is this about the right performance on the drive?

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Nick, sorry to bother you again, since you have all the experience, could you just tell me, is this about the right performance on the drive?
Yes.. for the nature of the tests that would appear correctMoving to a controller card, shutting down NCQ and other network opt features changes the file benchmark considerably however the default of that HD tune test, 64K, is not a very realistic file length. For FS9 I would set that to at least 128MB however 64MB works too as you set it to. The target file chunk opt for FS9 will be between 64K and 2MB As file size increases, that speed decreases however on a controller card your drive buffer will work directly with the card and the PCIe system which means you are firing data at the system well above the SATA spec for typical motherboard ports. The average file chunks FSX works with are 512K-8MB.. FS9, 64k-2MB. FSX will typically call in-game anywhere from 50MB-250MB of data in files ranging from 512K to 250MB such as mesh addons when crossing scenery boundry points and large airports, etc.As you can see the Vrap really does remove the need for RAID of any type as the single VRap perf is well in line (actually greater) than with any 2x32MB cache 7K RPM drives in RAID. If a RAID array is not set up to a 256K STRIPE when created (most motherboards wont allow 256K) then the perf is killed further due to excessive disk access for the FSX file chunks NO MATTER how fast the benchmark shows the drive or arraySo the controller card does do more than simply replace the motherboard ports. It allows the user to take advantage of the internal design of the drive and expanded bandwidth of the PCIe system, direct access to shutting down NCQ and other network type features of that nature you can not shut down by default in Windows and it allows the drive(s) to operate without the massive CPU overhead during random read operation of the application

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Nick, damnit man, you are gonna make me poor ;)Thanks for the great explanation though. I will save up for the card and probably futurewise, another Vrap for the main sys-drive.

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Nick, damnit man, you are gonna make me poor ;)Thanks for the great explanation though. I will save up for the card and probably futurewise, another Vrap for the main sys-drive.
LOL!People ask what they are paying for... I'm just showing you that you do get what you pay for. The fact of the matter is you are not getting eveything any drive has to offer connected to a motherboard SATA port. The card is the 2'nd part the drive manufactures don't tell you about because the typical home user really does not need that advantage... however we all KNOW when it comes to MSFS every optimized file call and every single CPU cycle counts. good luck :(

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Is it normal that my Vrap is having a high frequency pitch noise?
I

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LOL!People ask what they are paying for... I'm just showing you that you do get what you pay for. The fact of the matter is you are not getting eveything any drive has to offer connected to a motherboard SATA port. The card is the 2'nd part the drive manufactures don't tell you about because the typical home user really does not need that advantage... however we all KNOW when it comes to MSFS every optimized file call and every single CPU cycle counts. good luck :(
Nick, what do you have to pay for a solid state drive to match or beat a Vrap for FSX? I'm getting tempted to spend money again and sheesh--maybe a SSD is best? My FSX installation stays around 36Gb so perhaps an 80Gb SDD is best? I was about to purchase a 150G Vrap since the price is decent right now but SDD has me wondering. This thing here is only slightly more than the VRap:General Brand SUPER TALENT Series UltraDrive ME Model FTM64GX25H Device Type Internal Solid state disk (SSD) Expansion / Connectivity Form Factor 2.5" Capacity 64GB Interface Type SATA II Performance Chip Type MLC Max Shock Resistance Operating Shock : 1500G Max Vibration Resistance Operating Vibration : 16G Sequential Access - Read 200 MB/sec (max) Sequential Access - Write 160 MB/sec (max) MTBF 1,000,000 hours

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Nick, what do you have to pay for a solid state drive to match or beat a Vrap for FSX? I'm getting tempted to spend money again and sheesh--maybe a SSD is best? My FSX installation stays around 36Gb so perhaps an 80Gb SDD is best? I was about to purchase a 150G Vrap since the price is decent right now but SDD has me wondering. This thing here is only slightly more than the VRap:General Brand SUPER TALENT Series UltraDrive ME Model FTM64GX25H Device Type Internal Solid state disk (SSD) Expansion / Connectivity Form Factor 2.5" Capacity 64GB Interface Type SATA II Performance Chip Type MLC Max Shock Resistance Operating Shock : 1500G Max Vibration Resistance Operating Vibration : 16G Sequential Access - Read 200 MB/sec (max) Sequential Access - Write 160 MB/sec (max) MTBF 1,000,000 hours
funny how they left out the random read/write specs.. I have had this discussion in another thread http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1559836None the less the only SSD drive on the market which has overcome most of the issues with SATA connection is the Intel X2 drives.. all others I would not bother withAnd no they are not cheaper than a Vrap.. how many of those drives will it take to make 300GB?and to tell you the truth SSD is still not ready for prime time due to the need for the bandwidth SATAIII provides nor are they worth the investment in gaming. Assuming one purchases the better Intel SSD units with or without a controller card the speed of the drive well exceeds any applications ability to render in real time. If such a system is to be used for real time A/V editing or scientific research then they are worth the cost.. otherwise its throwing a lot of money at a small storage capacity that is not safe for datathey are volatile. Which means your data is not secure on them. You can store a HDD for years and use it again with all data in tact. You can not do that with SSD right now.

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funny how they left out the random read/write specs.. I have had this discussion in another thread http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1559836None the less the only SSD drive on the market which has overcome most of the issues with SATA connection is the Intel X2 drives.. all others I would not bother withAnd no they are not cheaper than a Vrap.. how many of those drives will it take to make 300GB?and to tell you the truth SSD is still not ready for prime time due to the need for the bandwidth SATAIII provides nor are they worth the investment in gaming. Assuming one purchases the better Intel SSD units with or without a controller card the speed of the drive well exceeds any applications ability to render in real time. If such a system is to be used for real time A/V editing or scientific research then they are worth the cost.. otherwise its throwing a lot of money at a small storage capacity that is not safe for datathey are volatile. Which means your data is not secure on them. You can store a HDD for years and use it again with all data in tact. You can not do that with SSD right now.
Ahh, then prob best go with the 150gb Vrap. Can't see a compelling reason to go to the 300GB drive at this time, can you? I have ALOT of other drive space for everything else. I figure I could grow FSX to 75Gb and still be fine, and again my FSX installation sits at 32.5Gb currently. I am using quite a few addons and mesh and so it seems like I have room for growth. Since we have no idea what if anything is coming beyond FSX I prob am ok with 150Gb. Can get it for $159 now at newegg.

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Ahh, then prob best go with the 150gb Vrap. Can't see a compelling reason to go to the 300GB drive at this time, can you? I have ALOT of other drive space for everything else. I figure I could grow FSX to 75Gb and still be fine, and again my FSX installation sits at 32.5Gb currently. I am using quite a few addons and mesh and so it seems like I have room for growth. Since we have no idea what if anything is coming beyond FSX I prob am ok with 150Gb. Can get it for $159 now at newegg.
rule of thumb.. with everything installed try to maintain at minimum 35% free space for best results. My personal MAX limit for data on any drive (SSD are different in that respect) is 65% full and I really prefer 50-50Format the drive to 64K clusters which means you will lose some space but that does improve file read/write efficiencyRemember Noel, basic geometry of a disk plays solid into mechanical drive performance that no benchmark program is going to show you in linear fashion. The larger the platter the more efficient and better the result to the application/system. Its much better to have 200GB of free space on a drive than 50

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rule of thumb.. with everything installed try to maintain at minimum 35% free space for best results. My personal MAX limit for data on any drive (SSD are different in that respect) is 65% full and I really prefer 50-50Format the drive to 64K clusters which means you will lose some space but that does improve file read/write efficiencyRemember Noel, basic geometry of a disk plays solid into mechanical drive performance that no benchmark program is going to show you in linear fashion. The larger the platter the more efficient and better the result to the application/system. Its much better to have 200GB of free space on a drive than 50
How much better do you think, insofar as the way FSX accesses the disk in my config with FPS_Limiter operating?Also Nick, with my particular configuration, what practical effects beyond faster load times would you anticipate with a new drive, 150 or 300gb? Somewhat quicker distance texture loading? How about in the context of FPS_Limiter? Usually when I have posed these questions the answer gets very nebulous. Hard to make a smart choice when the cost:benefit value is completely missing.If I went with a 150G drive, I'd still have at least 100 or more free. Right now I'd have close to 115Gb free on a 150gb drive.

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