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Noel

What LCD "response time" translates to TOO SLOW for FSX & other more action-oriented titles?

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I am imagining there is a maximum playable response time for an LCD for it to be considered "good enough" from the standpoint of response time being fast enough. What is that level for typical modern FSX users and that is also adequate for titles such as COD: Modern Warfare, or Crysis?I am interested in getting a screen with better viewing angle (at least 170/170) than you see with most fast response time screens.Thanks in advance. It seems the really nice 178/178 screens have response times around 16ms, which at one time, was considered ok for action gaming. I don't think games have gotten faster per se, though monitors have.To cut to the chase: I'm looking for 21-24" wide, smallest pixel size possible, 1650 x 1080, adjustable height, and an ADEQUATE response time. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance . . .Noel

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I am interested in getting a screen with better viewing angle (at least 170/170) than you see with most fast response time screens.
If you are looking for an LCD with decent viewing angles and good response time and low lag than you have to look at something more than a cheap TN panel monitor. I would start by looking for a 24

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If you are looking for an LCD panel for gaming, it may be worth noting that although IPS type LCDs have wider field of view and better Color rendition quality, they suffer from slower response times (mostly 6-8ns), which may cause 'ghosting' when viewing fast-paced action. IPS are also much more expensive, and are generally the type used for high-end graphics applications. (iMacs use IPS-type monitors)TN type LCDs are the much common, much cheaper type today, and they have high response times (from 2 to 4ns) making them suitable for gaming. THe downside is that you wont get the much wider fov angle as IPS offers, and of course the Color quality is a little inferior (if that matters to you).I use a Samsung Synchmaster 226BW 22", as according to many reviews, it is a TN monitor which has very close COlor rendition/Image quality to IPS panels.I plan to get the newer 24" model.Regards.

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Thank you Djt01. I am aware of the different panel types and what they bring to the table. I am seeking specific testimony on what the maximum response time with which a typical user is not bothered by ghosting. Do you have any insight into the specific question I posed? 5ms? 8ms? 16ms? Think in terms of titles like Crysis or other FPS. Thanks in advance if you have insight on this question.I'll read some of the links as well, but as I say, I have read some stuff on panel technology already. I have a TN panel now that I really don't like the poor viewing angles on.

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If you are looking for an LCD panel for gaming, it may be worth noting that although IPS type LCDs have wider field of view and better Color rendition quality, they suffer from slower response times (mostly 6-8ns), which may cause 'ghosting' when viewing fast-paced action. IPS are also much more expensive, and are generally the type used for high-end graphics applications. (iMacs use IPS-type monitors)TN type LCDs are the much common, much cheaper type today, and they have high response times (from 2 to 4ns) making them suitable for gaming. THe downside is that you wont get the much wider fov angle as IPS offers, and of course the Color quality is a little inferior (if that matters to you).I use a Samsung Synchmaster 226BW 22", as according to many reviews, it is a TN monitor which has very close COlor rendition/Image quality to IPS panels.I plan to get the newer 24" model.Regards.
Thank you for that. Have you personally witnessed ghosting in monitors with 6-8ms response times? Have you done any action gaming on a Mac at 16ms? This is what I'd like to know from end users. The "may cause ghosting" is what I have read, but never by anyone who has gamed on a monitor such as this and found it problematic. I'm guessing there is a maximum response time at which most users find it problematic. What is that number? 16ms? 12ms 8ms? I know 5ms isn't a problem cuz that is what I have now. I'm trying to get away from TN panels because of the poor viewing angle. It's an issue for my particular set up. I've got some money to buy a panel that is fast and has good viewing angles, if there is such a beast.

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Thank you Djt01. I am aware of the different panel types and what they bring to the table. I am seeking specific testimony on what the maximum response time with which a typical user is not bothered by ghosting. Do you have any insight into the specific question I posed? 5ms? 8ms? 16ms? Think in terms of titles like Crysis or other FPS. Thanks in advance if you have insight on this question.I'll read some of the links as well, but as I say, I have read some stuff on panel technology already. I have a TN panel now that I really don't like the poor viewing angles on.
I can

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Thank you for that. Have you personally witnessed ghosting in monitors with 6-8ms response times? Have you done any action gaming on a Mac at 16ms? This is what I'd like to know from end users. The "may cause ghosting" is what I have read, but never by anyone who has gamed on a monitor such as this and found it problematic. I'm guessing there is a maximum response time at which most users find it problematic. What is that number? 16ms? 12ms 8ms? I know 5ms isn't a problem cuz that is what I have now. I'm trying to get away from TN panels because of the poor viewing angle. It's an issue for my particular set up. I've got some money to buy a panel that is fast and has good viewing angles, if there is such a beast.
Hi there. Just out of curiousity, may I know what sort of application/setup do you have that requires the wider fov angle? I haven't personally tried gaming on a Mac, but somebody at the workplace who owns an Intel-based iMac did mention some 'slight' but noticeable ghosting (particularly in high-contrast edges according to him) as he plays some first-person-shooter games (cant remember which one) during high-speed view pans. But he uses the iMac mostly on professional digital imaging so the ghosting issue is no biggie. I had used an older 19" Acer lcd panel that was rated at 8ms.... it did show a little ghosting on almost any fast-pan motion, be it games or dragging a document across, but not the sort that you cannot live by IMO ;) I'd guess the safest bet is to stay away from anything above 6ms if you play games and ghosting is an issue. cheers.

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Hi there. Just out of curiousity, may I know what sort of application/setup do you have that requires the wider fov angle? I haven't personally tried gaming on a Mac, but somebody at the workplace who owns an Intel-based iMac did mention some 'slight' but noticeable ghosting (particularly in high-contrast edges according to him) as he plays some first-person-shooter games (cant remember which one) during high-speed view pans. But he uses the iMac mostly on professional digital imaging so the ghosting issue is no biggie. I had used an older 19" Acer lcd panel that was rated at 8ms.... it did show a little ghosting on almost any fast-pan motion, be it games or dragging a document across, but not the sort that you cannot live by IMO ;) I'd guess the safest bet is to stay away from anything above 6ms if you play games and ghosting is an issue. cheers.
Hello Santia,I use my PC for digital piano via Gigastudio. I use my PC LCD to view software interface in Gigastudio, and for some other digital audio recording software. So that means I have to get out of my chair, and exit stage left to my piano bench. So as a result I am viewing the screen from an angle. It's not practical for me to rotate the screen each time I go back and forth. I am blessed to play on a wonderful Roland A90Ex controller, and play an array of piano samples from PMI and Sampletekk. Flight simulator and a few FPS's are another hobby. I also like to share digital photos with visitors and family, so it's nice when people can be off to the side and see photos well at the same time.I just moments ago bought a Dell 2209WA. I think it will match my video card just right. I don't do HD video so didn't see the need for 1920 x 1200. (gets about a 15% increase in frame rate in FPS's by dropping down to 1680 x 1050). I also have to keep the screen closer to me so couldn't use a larger LCD. 22" wide is max for this situation. People seem to love it. I should get mine in a few days. I hope it arrives in good shape! It's apparently, from reviews I've read, fine for gaming. This is the first affordable 22" e-IPS panel monitor, complete with fully adjustable stand, 178/178 degree viewing angle, and adequate response time, at 5-6ms. I'll know soon!

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Noel,Congratulations on your purchase. Seems what you'll have is most suitable for your needs :)Let us know how it goes.Cheers.

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Noel,Congratulations on your purchase. Seems what you'll have is most suitable for your needs :)Let us know how it goes.Cheers.
Will do, thanks. Hope I can get used to widescreen!

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I just moments ago bought a Dell 2209WA. I think it will match my video card just right. I don't do HD video so didn't see the need for 1920 x 1200. (gets about a 15% increase in frame rate in FPS's by dropping down to 1680 x 1050).
I'm not sure what you mean by

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I like the extra 15% in Crysis and whatever comes along.As I say, if it doesn't work out my honey could use it for her photo hobby. They do have a similarly featured 1920 x 1200 screen but it's alot more moneyI'll report back as soon as it arrives and I've run it thru its paces. Seems like a real honey from all reports.
Crysis is different story, I didn't realize you were talking about heavily GPU dependent games also. That hog needs all the help it can get including lowering the resolution.I saw the 2209WA being discussed over at Hardocp. It's getting good feed back from those who have actually purchased one. The main thing is it's an IPS panel at a very reasonable price. The 24

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Crysis is different story, I didn't realize you were talking about heavily GPU dependent games also. That hog needs all the help it can get including lowering the resolution.I saw the 2209WA being discussed over at Hardocp. It's getting good feed back from those who have actually purchased one. The main thing is it's an IPS panel at a very reasonable price. The 24

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............................................................................. I'm really looking forward to the wide viewing angles . . .
--------------Noel- Be aware that visual distortion occurs when any monitor is viewed from an angle and increases as the viewing angle increases. (ex.- a diagonal, corner to corner line will appear progressively steeper as the mon is viewed from the side- eventually seeming to be a vertical line!) Reason of course is that the mon appears to become narrower as viewing angle increases.This is why a vistor sitting beside a sim pilot sees a very distorted picture ( and probably thinks we simmers are a bit strange)! What the world needs are concave monitors- concave both vertically AND horizontally! And then we could display & see FS the same way our eyes and brains see the real world!Alex ReidPS- I have both an ACER and an IBM LCD in a triple mon config with a (centre) KDS CRT. Both LCDs have an 8 ms response and I'm quite happy- no ghosting etc.- even in rapid manoeuvers such as aerobatic rolls or loops.

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--------------Noel- Be aware that visual distortion occurs when any monitor is viewed from an angle and increases as the viewing angle increases. (ex.- a diagonal, corner to corner line will appear progressively steeper as the mon is viewed from the side- eventually seeming to be a vertical line!) Reason of course is that the mon appears to become narrower as viewing angle increases.This is why a vistor sitting beside a sim pilot sees a very distorted picture ( and probably thinks we simmers are a bit strange)! What the world needs are concave monitors- concave both vertically AND horizontally! And then we could display & see FS the same way our eyes and brains see the real world!Alex ReidPS- I have both an ACER and an IBM LCD in a triple mon config with a (centre) KDS CRT. Both LCDs have an 8 ms response and I'm quite happy- no ghosting etc.- even in rapid manoeuvers such as aerobatic rolls or loops.
Thank you for that insight. I won't be viewing FSX from an angle, it is mainly so I can use my digital sampler (midi controller) from an angle and also people viewing from other than straight on can enjoy a brighter picture.

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Noel,Congratulations on your purchase. Seems what you'll have is most suitable for your needs :)Let us know how it goes.Cheers.
It's everything it is advertised to be--but I definitely prefer my late Samsung 204B 1600 x 1200 TN screen. Arrgghh!!!!! This Dell display is definitely high quality for color, uniformity, viewing angles. The overall image quality in games of any kind, in my opinion, is somewhat inferior. It's as I thought it might be with .282 pixel pitch and this resolution--it's just less crisp. Maybe there's a little more adjustment that might help it. I'm hoping somehow I will start liking it!Unfortunately monitors like my Samsung 204B that use a TN panel at that size have become a thing of the past. No one makes them anymore, which really surprises me. All the 1600 x 1200 screens now are done with IPS or SPV panels with larger pixel pitch, and slow response times, so not well suited for action gamers. There are a few 204B's on ebay, refurbished, and I may actually pick one up. I realize image sharpness is a top priority for me. I'm also not sure if this resolution (1680 x 1050) is a good part of the issue. I may also have to go with a 1920 x 1200 screen with lowest pixel pitch .27 and see if that's good enough. I'm not sure if TN or S-PVA is the best way to go with 1920 x 1200.

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Noel- I don't know if the following has any relevance to your query but FWIW- my monitor setup uses both an ACER and an IBM LCD and an ancient KDS CRT giving synched triple views. Both LCDs have 8ms response times.I can detect no ghosting whatsoever- even in rapid motion aerobatics.In fact, with a little colour balancing, I can detect no differences between any of these monitor images- other than the IBM has darker blacks.Alex Reid

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Noel- I don't know if the following has any relevance to your query but FWIW- my monitor setup uses both an ACER and an IBM LCD and an ancient KDS CRT giving synched triple views. Both LCDs have 8ms response times.I can detect no ghosting whatsoever- even in rapid motion aerobatics.In fact, with a little colour balancing, I can detect no differences between any of these monitor images- other than the IBM has darker blacks.Alex Reid
Hi Alex, Thank you for that input. I decided to buy a HP LP2065 4:3 screen. I don't find widescreen adds anything to how FSX looks, and TW04 doesn't support widescreen, so a widescreen display has to run at non native res so IQ suffers. I don't like the stretched 2D panels in the birds I fly. The HP I bought has the tight .255 pixel pitch, 1600x1200 native, 8ms response time and a 20.1" viewable screen. It also sports 178 degree viewing angles. The only unknown is if the one shipped will have an S-IPS panel, or a PVA. It would seem earlier models would occasionally show up with PVA or MVA panels, but this seems less n less the case since the monitor debued, or so it seems. I'm mainly interested in pixel pitch and native resolution, so probably either panel will work in that regard. It is touted to be very sharp IQ wise which is what I am after. If it is too slow I can return it to Amazon per their return policy.

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Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news..but LCD responce time has nothing to do with gaming...Responce time measured in MS is how fast a responce the time your mouse has in relationship to the display...

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