I have a beef...

[Guest dc4]

Mike T-My problems with Vista 32 start immediately and on a new machine with a fresh install (my old one had no problems). Vista simply refuses to update-and that is with a new install. It is well documented that others have this problem and MS has no idea what to do about it. I have also had the well documented problem of when Vista tries to update one is left with a black screen and a cursor on it-requiring another reformat, reinstall. I have spent 4 total months (at 4 different times) out of 18 working with MS techs on it-only to lose everything 4 times-I can't justify the time or loss of data/software anymore. I looked at my emails last night-each of the 4 tech sessions entailed about 20 emails of multi page instructions of what to try. The last email always stated-at this point a reformat and reinstall is about all we can suggest...I'd like to put Windows 7 on it-but you guessed it-it won't install because it says it needs Vista 32 to update first.As far as Vista 64-can't do it as my Elite radio stack hardware will not work with it, and that is important to me.I am simply at the point that everything else works on my computer (except Vista updating). I have no troubles with any other program except Fsx activation which rears its ugly head at random times. This problem last appeared exactly a year ago and hasn't come up till last night. Therefore I am content to wait for another new system /operating system instead of spending more months of my life trying to get Vista to work. I simply can not afford the loss/ time factor anymore. However, at this point-if fsx decides to not allow me to use it anymore I will probably just write it off. I am very glad that I stumbled into a fairly easy solution that did not require me losing everything and another month of trying to get it back.Pastorpilot-part of the reason I can't be bothered anymore with this mahem is I have been flying a lot, and between work life and that I just don't have the time or patience to mess with something that seems to self destruct on a random basis. I do flight sim for fun-and when it becomes not fun I just will not do it. The same applies to real flight! I stumbled on to a fix this time, but the next time fsx activation destructs for good I will probably just leave it.As to xplane-I don't like to get into loyalty camps but use the sim that best serves my needs. Xplane does much that fs/fsx does not do, and fsx does much that xplane does not do. For flying piston twins, specifically the one Jeremy and I do, xplane is in the much more than fsx does imho. Since I use the sim to train, it is taking more of my attention now. Fsx remains for fun, which I also like to do on occasion.Jeremy-bummer about your brand new system having troubles with Vista 64. I have Vista on another machine and have had no problems, but it seems when you have a machine it does not like you can have nothing but trouble.

Geofa,I really don't post that muct (as you can see) but when I was reading through this thread I thought I could give you some information just incase you want to re-install Vista.I too was having some issues for what ever reason with Vista on one of my machines (The other runs perfect). I did a reformat and reinstall but Vista still refused to update. So I did the round on round with Microsoft with no resolve. Then this customer support lady in California called me and told me she was sending me replacement disks with service pack one. Reason being is that sometimes Vista will only update so far then it will stop because the updates are out of sequence during install. The lady told me that I am far from the only person having this problem too and the vista replacment disk with service pack one will solve my problem. ( They sent the replacement disk free of charge too). So I received the new disks with service pack one. I installed the software with zero issues and so far Vista installes updates with no problems too. I have had zero crashes.Bottom line is that if you decide to reinstall, call Microsoft and ask if they can send you a replacement disk with service pack one. After all this time I am sure that is all they send out anyways. As many problems as you have had I am sure they have a record of it. I don't see why they won't be willing to send you a free replacement disk too.

[Guest Nick_N]

I confess, I knew about the replacement disksI was hoping to save Geofa from the darkside and pull him back into the light by not suggesting a replacement from MS LOL :( But yes, I agree his issue is most likely centered on his Vista install disk and MS should replace it for freewhile you are at it and since this is on-going and documented see if they will offer X64 to you instead of x32... FSX really should be run on a 64bit OS

[Geofa 108]

I confess, I knew about the replacement disksI was hoping to save Geofa from the darkside and pull him back into the light by not suggesting a replacement from MS LOL :( But yes, I agree his issue is most likely centered on his Vista install disk and MS should replace it for freewhile you are at it and since this is on-going and documented see if they will offer X64 to you instead of x32... FSX really should be run on a 64bit OS

Great idea both you guys! I'll look into it. Thanks!

[Guest dc4]

I confess, I knew about the replacement disksI was hoping to save Geofa from the darkside and pull him back into the light by not suggesting a replacement from MS LOL :( But yes, I agree his issue is most likely centered on his Vista install disk and MS should replace it for freewhile you are at it and since this is on-going and documented see if they will offer X64 to you instead of x32... FSX really should be run on a 64bit OS

They sent me both 32 and 64 bit vista ultimate disks without me asking. I use 64 bit on both machines anyways I see your point buy my problem was so ugly and none of the tech reps could figure it out. I spent about 17 hours for about 3 days on the phone and e-mails with tech support in India. Try this try that, do this do that......... Sometimes you have to call the baby ugly.

[Guest Nick_N]

The disk replacement program at MS should fix you right upRegardless of the OS platform or how much memory is used.. FSX is far better off on a 64bit OS Replacements for damaged, defective, or lost Microsoft software or hardwareTo request replacement hardware or software, contact the Microsoft Supplemental Parts team at the appropriate contact number that is provided in the "Contact Information" section. You must be in possession of the product (if it is damaged or defective) and be able to provide proof of purchase. The customer service representative will advise you of any replacement costs or shipping and handling fees that may be charged. If a product is no longer under warranty, the replacement item may no longer be available. United States: (800) 360-7561, Monday through Friday, 5:00 A.M. to 7:00 P.M. Pacific Time.OEM computers/disks are different.. all details are in KB326246http://support.microsoft.com/kb/326246

[markturner 0]

No sir.. its start from scratchBut I do wish to also reinforce what Mike posted and add to it.. Do not install FSX/FS9 or any performance application to the Vista Program Files folder.. instead place these applications on another drive and verify/set the folder permissions manually to ADMIN/FULL To do so removes Vista's hold because anything launched from the Program Files folder is still under Vista scrutiny regardless of UAC status. and shutting down DEP is an issue of compatibility with something installed and seeing a crash than any perf gain. Shutting down DEP is NOT going to make things run better.. its a complete mythI have all the OS's installed and so far the only one that comes close to XP x64 is Windows7 (and I do not use DX10) but it still does not exceed the perf of XP x64 every circumstance or flight situation. They are very close to each other though but it does require setting it up correctly on initial installation as Mike pointed out.Same is true for XP but not for the 'nanny' issue and true for Vista as well.. having your performance application on a drive outside of the Windows partition and drive does go a long way in helping the system access that data with less resources consumed and it keeps the application tidy from fragmentation unless a large addon is installed. On the Windows drive its always going to be susceptible to that expanding and contracting partition.One for the things I have stressed for years is all this 'shut down this and that' on systems which have 2GB or more of system memory is one of the worse things one can do to a system.. there are good tweaks and there are very, very bad.. but guess what.. on SOME systems the BAD tweak may actually be GOOD and the opposite for another system!The problem with computers is... If you DONT KNOW what it is you are shutting down in services and you DONT KNOW how that may affect, in example, how a driver or application may access the system... then all you are doing is making your life miserable when things do go wrong. There is no "one size fits all shut down' sequence that works other than VERY BASIC services which will not interfere but will release the most resources with no further impact. At the same time the ONLY way to remove the total footprint of services and startup applications is they must be shut down and a CLEAN BOOT occur. If that boot does not occur with the desired (both services and startup programs) items in a truly disbaled state at boot.. there IS LITTLE really being done!People end up in more trouble visiting places like Black Viper than probably any other reason. Tweaks are great but only if the users KNOWS how that tweak will follow the system down the line.

Hi Nick, I hear what you are saying, a little knowledge is dangerous. I have been looking at using a programme called FSstart, that enables you to temporarily shut down sevices while FSX is running, launch other apps such as trackir, defrag the memory, etc. Is there ANY benefit to be gained from temporarily disabling any services while using FSX ? I know Vista has loads of stuff going on behind the scenes, that cant help performance. What would your recommendation be for services to temporarily disable? Or are you saying dont do it, unless you know what you are doing? Problem is , we all want better performance, but we dont all have the in depth knowledge.......cheers, Mark

[Mike T 208]

Hi Nick, I hear what you are saying, a little knowledge is dangerous. I have been looking at using a programme called FSstart, that enables you to temporarily shut down sevices while FSX is running, launch other apps such as trackir, defrag the memory, etc. Is there ANY benefit to be gained from temporarily disabling any services while using FSX ? I know Vista has loads of stuff going on behind the scenes, that cant help performance. What would your recommendation be for services to temporarily disable? Or are you saying dont do it, unless you know what you are doing? Problem is , we all want better performance, but we dont all have the in depth knowledge.......cheers, Mark

Mark:No, there is NO BENEFIT to be gained from shutting down services while using FSX. UNLESS you have an old processor or less than 2GB of RAM, this is a throwback to the past and is a total waste of time on any state-of-the-art system. And even so this is not a frame rate tweak as much as it reduced stutters while other background apps robbed cpu cycles.The idea of this was that background services could rob CPU cycles and cause stuttering OR take memory and force FS to have to access the disk more often which, of course, is slower than straight memory access. But this was before multicores and large memory being standard fare on even new bottom end systems AND video cards with huge amounts of video ram on them.Don't believe me? Run task manager and look at all of the background services running and then look at the CPU usage. You'll see 1% here and 3% there and you'll also notice that on a 3 or 4GB system that ~ half of your memory is still free. Unless you are doing something in the background like plotting the human genome, there is no reason to shut down any Windows services. Of course feel free to shut down 3rd party crap sitting in the menu bar like quicktime, dowload managers, antivirus (depending on what you run), etc.

[Guest Nick_N]

I would like to follow up with what Mike said.. There is benefit in disabling some services .. SOME but not TEMP, permanent!So what the user should do is run down the list and get rid of things that are the primary perf killers setting them to be DISABLED AT LOGON and NOT just DISABLED on XpThat way when you boot those services have absolutely no footprint at all on the system.. Same goes with startup programs which can actually be MORE of an issue than the services as Mike pointed out. Regardless there is a right way and a wrong way to go about clean booting for performance. Do you need MS Messenger, Adobe Reader, Adobe Updater, Google/LIVE and other updaters and crap starting with Windows? NO! They can be started manually as needed!All of those things are a drag on a system!I also disable Automatic Updates! (not the service! it must remain enabled.. but just the auto timer system)I make it a practice to once every month visit Windows Update manually.. and about once every 3 months check for updates for the software I use and I make damn sure when programs install ANY automatic update features are DISABLED and the program leaves no traces of startup in my system.. The only items I boot ANY computer with (MSFS or not) are things I really need.. sound support AV support or hardware/monitor support I MUST have start with Windows and run safe.. otherwise it gets canned and cleaned out of the 'boot with windows' startup registry/trigger 100% I may use the MSCONFIG method to TEST something (uncheck) I am not sure can be disabled however once I verify it as bloat the startup key gets DELETED from the registry if the program itself does not allow a "Run at Windows Startup" disable selection in its settingsShutting things down AFTER Windows boots is NOT providing the same relief!System Restore and the Indexing Service are the 2 primary perf culprits and those require MORE than just the services list to remove them from the footprint.What you see above is how I run WITH MSFS or WITHOUTand NOTE, My service list is set up for that system.. some (a few more) of those items I disable on other systems. In example, the PRINT SPOOLER is not needed on one of my systems because it has no need for a printer and on another system I have no need for higher networking functions. Service List cleaning when done right HELPS, when done wrong or needlessly especially MACHINE GUN methods.. DoAH!The net is also FULL of USELESS and counterproductive tweaks too.. case in point: Read the entire thread.. http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=248622and some tweaks are flat out dangerous