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LAdamson

sad story regarding an airbus crash

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Part of the problem, is mentioned in the article itself:'the "highly experienced" pilot and co-pilot may have additionally been lulled by the Airbus into passivity and failed to exercise "their normal good judgment and professional skill."'My question is, why didn't they disable the autopilot and hand fly the plane?Steve

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>hi,>>sorry,>>can Tom transfer it to Hanger chat please>>thanks!>>:-wave>If this was in Hanger chat, I'd never had read it...L.Adamson

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My thoughts............These days I'm a strong advocate for moving map GPS's even in small aircraft, anytime flight is around mountainous areas. Even with handhelds, maps are good enough for instant "situational awarness" which can get you rear end out of situations such as this.I fly in mountainous areas myself, and have a moving map GPS; but know of many aircraft accidents around here, where the pilots became disoriented in IFR conditions that snuck up on them. L.Adamson

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>>My question is, why didn't they disable the autopilot and hand>fly the plane?>They didn't realize the immediate problem of actual rising terrain, due to not knowing their exact location.L.Adamson

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"These days I'm a strong advocate for moving map GPS's even in small aircraft, anytime flight is around mountainous areas. Even with handhelds, maps are good enough for instant "situational awarness" which can get you rear end out of situations such as this."I hear that. Just recently, we lost a twin engine aircraft out of Scottsdale--pretty much went full speed into a mountain at night. Seems from initial investigation that the pilot wasn't familiar enough with the area.As for the comment regarding hangar chat, I agree this post should be there. I know this may cause us to miss posts, but this shouldn't be a "catch all forum". Otherwise, there's no reason to have separate forums. And we have to police ourselves, as a moderator isn't always going to be around to enforce the rules. Add to that, we need to give ourselves the habit to browse other forums, as lots can be learned. I was in the A/C design forum months before I laid out my first fuse....Last, Someone with 30-40 posts under their belt should know the rules well enough by now to post to the appropriate forum, especially in this case where a long past event is being discussed..... Just my thoughts...-John

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>I hear that. Just recently, we lost a twin engine aircraft>out of Scottsdale--pretty much went full speed into a mountain>at night. Seems from initial investigation that the pilot>wasn't familiar enough with the area.Yes, that accident is one of my examples that I use. We also seem to have two or three per year right around my area (KSLC). Always a case of quickly getting disoriented, turning the wrong way, and hitting terrain. Last year, we had a Bonanza takeoff from the airport next to my house (U42) enroute to Deer Valley (Phoenix). He could see enough of the freeway heading south, but somehow in the haze he made a left turn and followed the road into a blind canyon covered with clouds. The pilot made two 360's before hitting the canyon wall. A "readable" detailed moving map GPS would have made all the difference. And this doesn't mean some of the older panel mounts in which you still have to interperate data.L.Adamson ----- changing the subject to FS2002 & GPS's :)

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Sad about the Bonanza pilot. Maybe he was unsure of the location of high ground and so tried to circle while climbing?The Airbus case is pretty astonishing--the pilots' complete loss of situational awareness leading them to believe they were still south of the airport whereas in reality they were north and heading for the Himalayas. Sounds like they let some equipment problem distract them to the point where nobody was navigating the plane.You have to wonder whether all these advanced systems encouraged passivity? Those pilots were used to being told where to fly all the time, whether by a controller or by the plane's automatic navigation systems. Then one day they fly into Kathmandu in the monsoon, miss their approach, and have problems reprogramming the navigation system. Since their machine has abandoned them and the ground controller is without radar, nobody is navigating. The plane flies blind into mountains, the pilots spending their last minutes fumbling with the navigation system. Had they reverted for one minute to basic navigation techniques they would have understood their true situation.

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> Had they reverted for>one minute to basic navigation techniques they would have>understood their true situation.It would have helped, although your mind can be "messed" up, when under pressure. Some of the new moving map GPS's actually look as good as the sectional maps used in FLY (which was my perfect simulated GPS). Instant representation of mountains ------ in your face! Of course these units are more expensive than others, but the price keeps coming down as the software gets better. Equipment is even avaialble now, that simulates topography like MSFS as you fly through the area. I keep track of NTSB accident reports. It's surprising of how many pilots get disoriented while trying to recover a missed approach, or getting re-established on an ILS. Many just fly into the ground, when pre-occupied. A moving map GPS with "extended" runway lines can do wonders when the "mind" has reached emergency status. L.Adamson

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