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Framerate problem with new Eaglesoft Beechjet...

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Maybe it's just me but it seems this new Beechjet is really hard on framerates (and I have a ATI 9700pro Video card). This is in both 2D and 3D cockpits. I would figure that the 2D cockpit would always be more framerate friendly than 3D but that's not the case here... Dell P4 1.5gig1gig RDRAM100gig HDATI 9700pro

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I'm running it on a P3/800.... It does give a hit on framerates (but my system is hardly a one to measure by), and the main culprit seems to be the cockpit. If I substitute the cockpit for any other, my frames go up a good 50 pct--but I lose the V/C. The reason? Seems to be split between gauges and the heavy amount of panel bitmaps that are loaded. I'm trying to work on a solution I can post. I know the potential fps is there. In cockpit view, with my own panel, I'm getting 25fps out of Sky Harbor.My other suggestion--try flying w/o A/C reflections. Nearly doubles the fps on my system. That's why I wish we would have seen dynamic shine implemented on this model. Still, it's a great jet.... One pilot question though--the Beechjet doesn't have ailerons? The MU-2 was the same--does that make the real thing tricky to handle?-John

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I would not know the answer to your question but I surely hope Eaglesoft reads this post. They need to refine their code a little, It's almost as bad as VMAX's 747 used to be...

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>One pilot question though--the Beechjet doesn't have ailerons?> The MU-2 was the same--does that make the real thing tricky>to handle?Since the 400A is the third generation successor to the MU-2, that's hardly surprising! Not much has changed on the airframe since Mitsubishi sold the design to Raytheon/Beech.No, there are no ailerons, and no it doesn't make it particularly 'tricky to handle.'BillAVSIM OmbudsmanFounder and Director,Creative Recycling of Aircraft Partshttp://mtco.com/~rsam/fartslogo.jpg

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>I would not know the answer to your question but I surely>hope Eaglesoft reads this post. They need to refine their>code a little, It's almost as bad as VMAX's 747 used to>be...You may be sure that we read this forum (and many, many others!). However, the proper place for this discussion is the Support Forum at http://eaglesoftdg1.com... :)BTW, I have been using this a/c for the last five months on a lowly PIII/850 MHz, 512 MB SDRAM, ATI Rage Fury Pro 128 MB system. If I can run it without an "FPS Issue," then those with "throughbred stallion systems" should have no problems whatsoever!BillAVSIM OmbudsmanFounder and Director,Creative Recycling of Aircraft Partshttp://catholic-hymns.com/frbill/FS2002/images/BLeaming.jpg

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No problems with frame rate here. I have set the limit at 16 per secand it stays there all the time with sliders quite to the right.I have an Athlon 1.8ghz with a GEGorce4 128mb and 512 of ram with a22" Mitsubishi monitor. Beautiful plane flies wonderful and very clear VC.

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The issue seems to be one of RAM. I measured my fps with the panel, and with the default--and they are the same--about 25 fps in cockpit view, given my settings. And about 22 fps in spot view. But I have only 256 megs, and I noticed long pauses when switching screens, and odd drops in the fps. So I measured free memory, and found that with the included panel, the Beechjet is taking a good 60 megs more of RAM, causing some consistent swap file usage. If I reload it with a default MSFS panel, the RAM is freed and the swap file usage goes away. So Bill is quite right--a well endowed (RAM wise) system shouldn't see any fps hit with the default panel, even if it is below 1 GHZ.Next I will try to see if a specific gauge is causing the issue...-John

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John, I too have the frame rate issue. I have found so far that changing the settings-aircraft-virtual cockpit gauge quality to low has helped the most of anything I have tried. I have 768 megs of ram on a P3 933 w GF3 ti500, so I am not sure it is a ram issue. I have checked CPU usage, and with this AC it is 80%, all other AC CPU usage stays around 15%.Have you tried removing the VC to see if that is the culprit? I am not sure how or I would try it.Later,Glen

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Yep, I did remove the V/C, and it is indeed the culprit as far as eating the RAM in my system. I actually just removed all the gauge entries in the V/C by cutting them out (after first backing up the default panel.cfg). I'm going to go through them one by one, to see if I can isolate the entry that causes the biggest RAM hit.With the default panel loaded, out of the cockpit at Sky Harbor I get a solid 25 fps. And I have a bone to pick with Eaglesoft...Here I am, minding my own business, when an alarm which sounded like it was conceived in a torture chamber starts blaring in my study. Maybe I broke a few rules. Going a bit too fast was one of them. But this was sheer torture! I felt chastened, punished. Stupid technology always checking up on us armchair pilots :)

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This is interesting John let me know what you find. I knew it was not just me that had a framerate problem with this bird. If this issue is do to one or two gauges, let us know so we can remove them and let Eaglesoft know of the issue...

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>You may be sure that we read this forum (and many, many>others!). However, the proper place for this discussion is>the Support Forum at http://eaglesoftdg1.com... :)>>BTW, I have been using this a/c for the last five months on a>lowly PIII/850 MHz, 512 MB SDRAM, ATI Rage Fury Pro 128 MB>system. If I can run it without an "FPS Issue," then those>with "throughbred stallion systems" should have no problems>whatsoever!>>Bill>AVSIM Ombudsman>Founder and Director,>Creative Recycling of Aircraft Parts>http://catholic-hymns.com/frbill/FS2002/images/BLeaming.jpgI have a p4, 512mb ram, an ATI 9500 128mb card, so I would say I am a bit better than Bill, so maybe I am taking this the wrong way but to be so smug as to say I have no problems so you shouldn't is pretty harsh. I am experiencing some huge frame rate hits and I would say my computer is better than Bill's. So maybe it might be worth looking into. Atleast maybe have opptions to turn off some of the VC gauges to help it run better. The Piper Meridian has this feature and it makes a world of difference. I turned the VC gauges to low in the display settings and now the gauges look fuzzy and it seemed to have little if no effect on frame rates. I will also try to turn off some of the VC gauges and see if this helps.To the Bill and the crew of Eaglesoft, I am still enjoying your Beechjet. It is one of the best out there. I looks great and sounds wonderful. Thank for taking the time to read our posts.

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Nope no ailerons. Those large "aileron looking" surfaces on the wings are just for trim. The spoilers do a pretty good roll rate though even though you may not be able to tell in FS. I used to fly the military version of the BJ (called the T-1 in the USAF) and we used to "rack it up" quite a bit and we always got very decent roll rates with spoilers. The hard thing about flying the T-1 was the pitch sensitivity (in real life). It's hard to judge a flight model in FS unless you have the exact same control/yoke system with equal control loadings.

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I second your point here Yellow5... I'm starting to see this attitude with many Payware developers. I just experienced this same kind of response from the guys over at CaptainSim about the dynamic shine feature included in the v1.3 patch for their B727-200. I was told to get another video card, hell I already got a 9700pro. I guess that means shelling out another $500 for the 9800. That's a crappy way to handle your customers. I guess if the company in question (or most users) doesn't have a problem, forget about the customers that do. I hope JohnCi finds the problem gauge so the rest of us can join in the fun

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Hi,As the main gauge programmer for this project, I am interested in your findings. We had to do some creative loading and programming to get everything to work properly and we are still working on ideas for improvement. After all, if it wasn't for you guys buying our product, we wouldn't be here. For this reason we are, and will continue, to try and make our products better. There are some pretty complex gauges running and some of them are about 2 meg. Please report any findings you have and you can e-mail me directly if you want.Have fun!Lonny http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/10816.jpg

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>I have a p4, 512mb ram, an ATI 9500 128mb card, so I would say>I am a bit better than Bill, so maybe I am taking this the>wrong way but to be so smug as to say I have no problems so>you shouldn't is pretty harsh. I am experiencing some huge>frame rate hits and I would say my computer is better than>Bill's.It seems that I cannot say anything without someone taking it the wrong way than is intended. :(The only reason for pointing out that I haven't had a huge problem here with my rubbish system was to illustrate that maybe there are some other possible reasons for customer's race horses stumbling on the 400A.FWIW, I also run Win98SE exclusively, with absolutely no other applications running. All 13 'flightstatons' here at St. Gregory House are set up identically, and my brother priests are having a ball with it.As Lonny said though, we will continue to look into the matter and see what might be done to bring some relief for each of you who've put your trust in our product.BillAVSIM OmbudsmanFounder and Director,Creative Recycling of Aircraft Partshttp://catholic-hymns.com/frbill/FS2002/images/fartslogo.jpg

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I'd like to say this, you guys did a great job with this aircraft... The more I fly it the more I love it and the more this frame rate issue is glaring out at me. I hope we all can find out what's causeing the problem.Thanks Eaglesoft...

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Bull $hit.I get vert poor FPS from the vmax747! ( about 10fps )when I fly the beechjet I get 20+ fps. She runs very well!My systemAthlon XP1800512 PC2700 DDRGF4 MMX440 with latest driversWindows XP Pro

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Consider yourself blessed... Just because your getting good framerates doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. Our statements and/or request to Eaglesoft is not BS, there facts which we hope will get addressed...

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From what I can tell the framerate problem lies in the HSI unite...

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Quote- "As Lonny said though, we will continue to look into the matter and see what might be done to bring some relief for each of you who've put your trust in our product."While youre on the subject of relief (and TRUST), can you please tell me where about 4 posts from yesterday went? Were they deemed inappropriate for the forums or did I miss something? These were 4 very important factors for customers to see and read regarding how they are treated when asking for support for your products. The 4 posts were here in this thread but POOF- gone!I was going to take a screenshot of it because I just KNEW something like this would happen- but I was tired and decided against it.

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I apologize for not getting back with my research.... We had a grass fire a few steps from our subdivision yesterday, and I was thus distracted.What are the gauge names of the HSI units? And just to again qualify my observations, I don't have a fps hit per se' My issues seem to be a stutter caused by running out of memory, and getting hit with swap file activity. I am really stumped as to why 512Meg systems are having a problem.I think some of the folks with systems similar to ours are comparing apples to oranges when saying they've had no fps issues. One mentioned having an fps lock of 16. If I kept my system locked at 16, I wouldn't see an issue either. But I normally fly with a 25fps locked. I've kept AI off and Autogen off, as flight fidelity and smoothness is a bit more important to me than eye candy.Still, I think Eaglesoft's rapport with our community is excellent--if only by the fact that they have one, and even communicate with the community outside of their own support forums. Gauge programming is the toughest aspect of aircraft design, I think. Anything that's in code can get in a heap of trouble on different systems--or can run smooth as silk on others. So much depends on how the code interacts with all the things people don't tell you in posts, such as installed USB devices, graphics drivers, applets, TSR's, etc....One example--yesterday I went out and purchased a Canon A-70 digital camera. Although there were no icons in the taskbar, and no new tasks in the task manager, I became suspicious when I detected an odd stutter in FS's overall performance. I found a port scanning program loading through my registry--common with cameras. It was there to autodetect the camera and launch the software. I didn't feel I needed it, since the camera is TWAIN compliant. So I disabled it, and had no issues whatsoever, other than I launch the software, rather than letting the computer detect the camera and do it iself.My point is that the camera could be anything--it was throwing off FS's performance, and it was an issue that wasn't readily visible--even end-it-all did not catch the process. Imagine being Eaglesoft, and trying to juggle an issue like this? I think some people are reading surprise on their part as poor customer service. It's not...and I think they will have a solution in no time to help people enjoy the package...For the time being, I'm enjoying it by flying with a default FS panel. BTW, does anyone know how to turn off those dang callouts in the included panel? -John

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>I think some people are reading surprise on their part as poor>customer service. It's not...and I think they will have a>solution in no time to help people enjoy the package...Thank you for saying that, John. That is absolutely correct! The hardest part of any "remote customer support" is that there are so many different factors (including, dare I say, cockpit error?) that can influence how performance may be adversely affected. If we had the ability to look over someone's shoulder, we'd be in a much better position to provide a solution.Having spent most of my early life working on all types of electronics, but most especially land mobile radio systems, I can tell you straight out that "intermittent problems" are the toughest nut to crack! It's darn near impossible to determine a "fix" for a problem that cannot be replicated at the investigation end.As a typical example, at least one person reports being unable to see the nav lights when looking out the window at the port wingtip. Yet, I look out the window and see them just fine! So begins the tedious process of having the customer check each of the most obvious things that might cause the problem their having. Usually, its a case of not having the number of lights available set to the maximum of eight. In other cases it might turn out that their video card won't support that many light effects at one time. There are seemingly an infinite number of variables...>For the time being, I'm enjoying it by flying with a default>FS panel. John, given the choice I'd rather fly a brick and use the panel. That's where a pilot spends most of his/her time anyway, and is the only part of any model that's unique.>BTW, does anyone know how to turn off those dang callouts in>the included panel? Have you considered clicking the VF off (turns off the First Officer)? The other buttons will disable other callouts such as GWPS, etc. Oh, but of course you cannot do that if you are not using the 400A's panel! :(BillAVSIM OmbudsmanFounder and Director,Creative Recycling of Aircraft Partshttp://catholic-hymns.com/frbill/FS2002/images/fartslogo.jpg

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I'll try turning off the VF as you suggest Bill. May be interesting to see if that improves performance. But please don't be mad at me... Wanna know why I bought this jet? So I could plunk myself down in one of those cozy pax seats and enjoy the ride :) -John

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>I'll try turning off the VF as you suggest Bill. May be>interesting to see if that improves performance. But please>don't be mad at me... >>Wanna know why I bought this jet? So I could plunk myself>down in one of those cozy pax seats and enjoy the ride :) In that case you'll really love the Premier I's "in flight" bar service! :)BillAVSIM OmbudsmanFounder and Director,Creative Recycling of Aircraft Partshttp://catholic-hymns.com/frbill/FS2002/images/fartslogo.jpg

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