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Cactus521

Beechjet -- a week later

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I'll qualify this post by saying my wife hasn't seen this month's CC bill. If I suddenly disappear from this forum...uh...you'll know why. I am enjoying this aircraft more than any since Flight1's 421 release. I am wondering how others have liked it--there was a lot of initial talk, but much of it has quieted down since the Beechjet's release.I am curious if anyone has heard rumor of similar projects on the horizon, freeware or payware....? A Citation 501 would be really exciting, or any of the SP certified Citations. Thanks goes out to Eaglesoft and all the teams working to fill this long neglected niche... I encourage people who are on the fence to go out and get Eaglesoft's package. Purchase couldn't be easier, and there is always someone close at hand in their support forums to answer a question....Right now, my next anticipated aircraft is a freeware one--CSI's anxiously awaited A319/20/21 series....-John

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I obtained two payware aircraft simultaneously...the Eaglesoft Beechjet 400A and Bill Lyons's classic Piper J3C Cub. I started off by looking at the Beechjet 400A...it is nice....the 2D cockpit not spectacular...(I have seen similar or better as Freeware)...the VC quite nice...and the outside shape accurate. Full GMAX features, such as reflective textures are there, but also an assault on frame rates....I have a P4 2GHz and a Ge Force 3 card and a GiG RAM...and I have a slideshow....well, a week later this aircraft is parked in the hangar. Out came that beautiful Cub....everything gives one pleasure on this one....and the frame rates are super. I have had so much fun with this little gem. I know I am comparing apples with pears...yet I must say I popped a kidney stone when I once again got a payware product like this Beechjet which is unusable because of it's impact on frame rates.I hate to think how dissapointed those with a lesser spec PC must feel when they buy this aircraft and end up with a 'slide show" on their PCs.

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>I obtained two payware aircraft simultaneously...the>Eaglesoft Beechjet 400A and Bill Lyons's classic Piper J3C>Cub. >>I started off by looking at the Beechjet 400A...it is>nice....the 2D cockpit not spectacular...(I have seen similar>or better as Freeware)...the VC quite nice...and the outside>shape accurate. Full GMAX features, such as reflective>textures are there, but also an assault on frame rates....I>have a P4 2GHz and a Ge Force 3 card and a GiG RAM...and I>have a slideshow....well, a week later this aircraft is parked>in the hangar. >>Out came that beautiful Cub....everything gives one pleasure>on this one....and the frame rates are super. I have had so>much fun with this little gem. I know I am comparing apples>with pears...yet I must say I popped a kidney stone when I>once again got a payware product like this Beechjet which is>unusable because of it's impact on frame rates.>I hate to think how dissapointed those with a lesser spec PC>must feel when they buy this aircraft and end up with a 'slide>show" on their PCs.Sounds like your PC is the problem, not the Beechjet....I get a solid 30FPS with the Beechjet with all sliders maxed.Times have changed and games are getting more hardware intensive, it isn't the developers fault that thier new products don't work well on peoples old hardware.And yes, a GF3 is considered dated by todays standards and so is the 2 ghz processor. I know it is depressing and frustrating but that is just how things go.I think I spend more on computer equipment then I do on anything else....much to my wifes shigrin! LOL

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"....which is unusable because of it's impact on frame rates...."Couldn't disagree more.... I'm running the Beechjet on a P3/800.... I and others have posted several tips in the Eaglesoft forums, any one of which can be applied singly or in combination to allow low spec systems to run the product. But even without the tips applied, I can achieve a fairly consistent framerate by keeping my sliders to where they should be for a P3/800--which means I can keep it in the high teens to the low 20's, depending on scenery, just by limiting AI and Autogen, and leaving reflections off unless I'm taking "eye candy" shots. One hardly needs them on in the business end of a jet. It's right about on par with my Flight1 421 performance, and I'd hardly call it a slide show.In addition, if someone really wants to enjoy the jet for it's visuals, they can substitute another panel setup.... If I use any default panel, I can get in the high 20's to low 30's. I'm also working on a couple of alternates for simmers with low spec systems. But I do feel that anyone with a system twice my speed, should be seeing twice my performance. I can't even guess why it's not happening...-John

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Wonderful airplane. I run a 1.8GHZ with 512 of RAM and a GEforce4 TI4200 with 128mb. I have set the frames at 16fps and it steadies there with sliders quite to the right. This and the 421 have become my favorites. Thank you Eaglesoft. It was worth the money.

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My system is a amd2400xp with a gf3 and 1gig ramI have al sliders maxed except reflective water and all shadowsI have fps set at 22 and every plane in my hangar df737,flt1 meridiancs727,pss dash 8 etc run at a smooth 21-22 fps on the ground in the air , through weather etc.I am using the omega drv's before that I was using the det 29.42 which on the ground or flying through the weather I would see about a 50% drop in fps with the omega's I get a constant smooth fps.Now the beech: about 90% of the time flying it I get my smooth 21-22fps but randomly for short periods of time my fps drops to a slide show 0-2 fps which may last up to about 5min and then I get my fps back. it dosn't seem to matter where i'm flyin (weather, mountains, plains, water, etc.) this seems to be a random event.I must say That I love flyin this bird, its a blast, great flt dynamics. looking forward to a patch to fix some of the minor issues.my vote is money well spent I'll be putting many miles on this bird.FloydCYPK

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You may want to reinstall the jet.... I was messing around with some of the included sound files with the jet, trying to resample them so they'd be a bit smaller. In my zeal, I moved a file into the wrong folder. I didn't notice this until I was cruising along, did something the vfo didn't like, and the jet and sim started stuttering, looking for the sound I had moved. This went on for several moments. Knowing what I had done, I restored everything, and didn't see the problem again.I do believe tbese are among the most complex gauges I've ever seen. From the outside, they don't look like much, but there are quite a few functions buried in them. I enjoy the jet more for how it feels in the air, exterior visuals, and even the degree of detail in the interior cabin. Ultimately, I just plan on using stock gauges with it... I don't think you can have such complex code within a sim gauge, and not run into issues as people try to run it over different systems. CPU speed isn't the only factor.... -John

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For those who are having framerate problems try this...'You can cut back on half the work mentioned in other posts by simply editing your 'panel.cfg' under the VC section containing the left and right side panel entries. Change your 'pixel_size' resolution and your problem is solved with less work and all your gauges still work:file=vc_left.bmp Background_color=0,0,0 size_mm=1024,1024visible=0render_3d_window=1pixel_size=512,512 <------ This number was 1024,1024texture=$vc_leftBy cutting the pixel_size number in half, I was able to increase my frame rates by half or more. (Example: 1024=512, 512=256, 256=128).' Do not change all the VC panel entries just the left and right main panel!!! Text should begin like this:[Vcockpit01]file=vc_left.bmp Background_color=0,0,0 size_mm=1024,1024visible=0render_3d_window=1pixel_size=512,512texture=$vc_left--------------------[Vcockpit02]file=vc_right.bmp Background_color=0,0,0 size_mm=1024,1024visible=0pixel_size=512,512texture=$vc_rightThat's it, don't change anything else...

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I couldn't agree more. I especially love the call-outs, the virtual copilot and the warning horns. I got the BeJEZUS scared out of me when I went into an overspeed condition on a flight today. This bird will definitely tell you if you are doing something wrong. Thanks EagleSoft!!!Larry

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One thing to add (as we both discovered)--if your V/C gauge quality slider is set to the minimum, this tip may not change performance at all.The other option I found is simply replacing the v/c setup with a static panel.... These gauges running in V/C mode absorb a lot of resources from the system. I'm in the process of creating a panel which will replace the v/c.... IMHO, this is one jet that lends itself better to flying with the 2-d panel anyway... -John

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I'd have to agree with Sunstream on this one. I bought the plane the day it came out and returned it the same day. The aircraft isn't THAT detailed that justifies eating FPS like it does. I was unimpressed by the visual model and the 2D panel clarity, so I got the refund and bought the RealAir Sf.260. I haven't regretted it the slightest bit.[table][tr][td rowspan=2]http://timbo87.home.attbi.com/sig/valiant.gif[/td][td]

Tim Pinkawa

[/td][tr][td]

Alpha Sims Texture Artist/Panel Designer

Tims FS Studio]

[/td][/tr][/table

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I don't have the RealAir model....doesn't fall into a niche I fly in much. But from what I've read, I agree that no one could regret purchasing it.Just curious--what didn't you like about the 400a's visual model? Only visual model I found an issue with was the Premier--the cabin windows appear too large on it, but the look may be overblown due to some "Creative" screenshot taking. I don't recall the first series of Premier Screenshots having that issue. The initial 400a release had a problem with blurred textures on the default paint, but the 3rd party paints didn't have that issue, and ES has since posted a fix for the default paint..

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There was nothing wrong with it per se. It just didn't impress me as it lacked now standard features like dynamic shine. On a business jet like this, dynamic shine is a must IMO. For the amount of processing power it requires, the somewhat blocky windows were kind of dissapointing, too. Although my biggest complaint was the VERY low resolution textures on it. 1024 pixels for the fuselage and tail isn't acceptable anymore for payware add-ons... Zoom in once or twice and you'll see what I mean. Using larger textures doesn't mean a performance hit either. If they split the fuselage textures into two pieces and put them on a 1024 pixel texture, they'd have twice the texture resolution and almost no FPS hit.[table][tr][td rowspan=2]http://timbo87.home.attbi.com/sig/valiant.gif[/td][td]

Tim Pinkawa

[/td][tr][td]

Alpha Sims Texture Artist/Panel Designer

Tims FS Studio]

[/td][/tr][/table

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The lack of dynamic shine is a bit sad--it could have been added late in the rollout, I feel.... Only other issue I noted with the visuals were the Windows--too clear, especially with reflections turned off. A lower transparency level applied to the part would have been a great help, I think...Both issues can also be applied in an update--I hope Eaglesoft is listening. No parts would have to be redesigned... And adding the dynamic shine to the model would be one of the best ways to improve visuals and fps on slower systems, since they are almost as good (if not better in some cases) than reflections.Some of the non ES staff responses I received when noting these issues were the typical "you have to pay to play" responses...meaning that it was suggested someone with my slow system might as well forget add-ons like this. I refuse to buy into that--it may be true for FS2004, but not for FS2002 if it runs every other add-on well. And I feel I've proven to my satisfaction that the issue seems the complexity of the panel, and not the aircraft itself. Some of the responses about people getting a solid 15 fps with the panel failed to look at people who are used to seeing 25 fps with everything else...I believe ES will listen to the good and bad, and in due time come out with an update. 2048x2048 textures would be nice. The best quality textures I've ever seen, BTW, were in Yannick's Robin....

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I have pretty much hangered ALL my other aircraft except the new Beechjet, the LAGO Falcon and the LAGO Tornado. Timbo, you could have looked at the screenshots of the aircraft to tell that it had no dynamic shine, or you could have asked if you couldn't tell from them. Besides that, I'm sure of enough people request it the dynamic shine will be added in an update. As far as the textures go, I don't know anybody who views the aircraft externally from 1 ft away! LOL I honestly have no idea what you are talking about concerning the textures....on my machine they look great, especially the repaints!! WOW!!Some people complained about the default livery being blurred....to fix that all you had to do was go into image tool and "extract the mip-maps" and save the "_0" file. BAM! done.Visually, this aircraft is stunning. I am totally pleased with it and have no issues or regrets whatsoever. Oh well, to each his own!! :)Personally, I love it Eaglesoft!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Shane,When I asked about the dynamic shine before I returned it, they said they "ran out of time". That is completely unacceptable. Obviously they were more concerned with meeting an unrealistic deadline than releasing a finished model. Some people may say otherwise, but public relations play a big role in the overall add-on experience for me and responses like that really p*** me off after I spent $25. As for the textures, I guess it might just be a painter thing, but it really bugged me whenever I zoomed in to look in the cabin or at the cockpit I was greeted with pixellated, grainy, textures.[table][tr][td rowspan=2]http://timbo87.home.attbi.com/sig/valiant.gif[/td][td]

Tim Pinkawa

[/td][tr][td]

Alpha Sims Texture Artist/Panel Designer

Tims FS Studio]

[/td][/tr][/table

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Great plane John. Nice to see your enthusiasm for it and the work arounds you've done to help your system performance. I honestly don't know why anyone would want their money back on this one. Plus it's a two-for-one deal and all the repaints which will be contributed. As well I believe the Premier 1 will have specular lighting is that not the case?All around excellent work which just a patch or so can address the residual issues (altitude capture being one). I use it with the Garmin 530 (Reality XP) for an unbeatable combination.

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To add to what Tim is saying, he's not talking about the blur problem fixed by removing the mips. He's referring to the overall detail of the textures. Anywhere within ten feet or so of the aircraft, you can clearly see the stairstepping... Larger 2048x2048 textures would have helped quite a bit. I used smaller textures in my Microlight....the result is from within my v/c, the stairstepping is quite noticeable. Recently I purchased a digital camera, and the Arcsoft software that came with it seems perfect for adding greater detail on my textures....I also agree with Tim about the dynamic shine issues. Dynamic shine didn't become a big thing until fairly recently, well after the the ES jet was being developed. But ES could have added it in an hour--I recently assisted another developer in updating his model with dynamic shine--the results should be out in a week or two. Took me only 30 minutes to apply it to the aircraft... You don't even need to be a good a/c designer (I certainly am not) to do it....On a brighter note, I finally got around to dl'ing some repaints for the Beechjet.... Just love Bill Browning's work....

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It is assuring to see that Eaglesoft DOES a refund if one is dissatisfied. That's reassuring. I will not go that route though, as I quite like the Beechjet as it is...it is only thje frame rates It seems as though aothers are getting better frramerates that I do, and I agree that my system (P4-2GIG, GF3, 1GIG RAM, WIN XP_Pro...with NOTHING else running) might be old hat...but I wonder how may othrers do have similar spec machines. I try my level besat to remain up to date, but, really, to have to buy a new PC every 6 months to keep up with FS Software developers is asking a bit much. In my humble opinion, the developers of FS add ons should ask themselves just how much of their target market has top spec PCs? I for one replace my PC every 18 months with whatever is the tops, and not everyone can afford to do this. So my appeal to FS add ons...please keep those with mediocre 12 month old computers in mind! How about developing these add ons in such a way that there is a "light" and standard option, giving the user more flexibility...after all reading waht some one else wrote here...it is quite possible to adjust things like panel.cfg files, or for that matter disable the VC...and get an acceptable performance.

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Tim,I'm unaware of anyone from Eaglesoft telling you we "ran out of time"on the dynamic shine issue, but would like to know. [i've been a bit busy lately:-)] Anyone who knows about gmax will tell you that the choices are either reflective or dynamic. We chose reflective on this one and felt it was realistic...considered dynamic such as shown on our Premier1 but decided on what you see now.Our goal is to have folks enjoy these aircraft and by our estimates roughly 98-99% of purchasers do, despite some wrinkles that need to be ironed out:-)Well enough rambling for now, gotta get back to the task at hand:-)Best RegardsRon

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FWIW, the fastest computer at St. Gregory house is a lowly PIII/850, 512 MB SDRAM, ATI Rage Fury Pro 128 MB video...During the course of development, I felt that "surely if I can run the 400A on my antique system, it should really fly (pun intended) on any of the newer computer platforms!"Clearly, this has not been the case (or else those with issues have much higher standards than I do). I am not now, nor have I ever been a "frame rate junkie," being more concerned with "fluidity." If I get a "smooth response" from the a/c at 12-18 fps, I am very satisfied.Is it a "resource hog?" Yes, but we are working hard to address the impact of the a/c on system resources.BillAVSIM OmbudsmanFounder and Director,Creative Recycling of Aircraft Partshttp://catholic-hymns.com/frbill/FS2002/images/BLeaming.jpg

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Here is the quote:"Actually Bill, what we have is reflective surfaces. "Dynamic Shine" is a relatively recent technique that uses a specular color applied from within the modelling program itself. Using that technique eliminates (or minimizes) the need for reflective texture mapping. It's not that difficult to do, but we simply 'ran out of time.'"http://forums.avsim.com/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=searchI really don't want to keep arguing, but the PSS Vulcan has both dynamic shine and reflective surfaces.[table][tr][td rowspan=2]http://timbo87.home.attbi.com/sig/valiant.gif[/td][td]

Tim Pinkawa

[/td][tr][td]

Alpha Sims Texture Artist/Panel Designer

Tims FS Studio]

[/td][/tr][/table

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Point well made Tim:-) I guess I read over that one:-)Seems that there is no small misunderstanding amongst simmers as to terminology on this subject:-)Glad to hear that the Vulcan has both techniques applied, I will make note of that for future projects. Who knows, we may even do an update down the road that would include both techniques.Checked your site and was pleased to see that you did an Embry Riddle livery...looks a lot like the one I did for the DF Cardinal:-)No argument here, no one is being forced into purchasing "or keeping" our aircraft:-)Best Regards,Ron HamiltonPresidentEaglesoft Development Group

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