Hi everyone,I am trying to figure out a way to make floatplanes perform more realistically on the water. It seems with the default FS9 settings that I am attempting to taxi, takeoff or land on wet cement instead of water. In reality, if a floatplane is not tied up and the engine is running, it will move forward and always try to weathercock into the wind. In FS9, a large amount of power needs to be added to get a plane moving on the water, and it is virtually impossible to maintain a normal taxi speed....it's either you're stopped, or you going too fast. Is there a water friction setting or similar somewhere in the .cfg file that will make water more "slippery"? I'd appreciate any input you have. Thanks!

Well, we might, if we knew which model you're talking about. Not everyone has the payware models. What you describe happens to SOME, but not all, float plane models in FS9. Some are 99.9% good. Others do what you describe. So a 'fix' would have to be done, and to do the fix, we need the model, and preferably the zip file name so as to not get the wrong files. I can help you with this, if I can pinpoint the model. Freeware only, as I do not have ANY payware.Chuck BNapamule

His question was if there was a way to tweak the characteristics of water handling. Can we answer that question first ?! :(

What you describe happens to SOME, but not all, float plane models in FS9.

Exactly what models do you use that don't exhibit these characteristics?Joe

Ok, foolish people, I'll run it past you one more time. Zac, the answer is YES they can be tweaked to 'act more realistically' in the water in FS9. You need to know what to do. And to know what to do you have to have the model he is talking about, so I can download it, and look at cnt pts, position of floats, etc. There is no 'set' and/or 'general adjustment' that would cover ALL the different models, as they all have different values, positions, depth of floats, etc.Joe, the amphibs that I HAVE, and that I WORKED ON, DO have 'more realistic' handling characteristics when in the water in FS9. All the rest (the ones I don't have) I can't vouch for, or againt, as to how THEY handle while in the water. I could go look for all the ones I don't have, and make a list for you. But I don't think that will help Brad with his problem. Or make modelers adopt any of my tweaks. Too much pride. The WORSE thing they do is put '5' type, or water rudders, and they don't work right in FS9. The steering in water can be done by giving the '4' type points (floats) a 'steering ratio' value of 20.000, instead of '0.000', and this is done to the rear points ONLY. Then comment out the '5' (rudder) lines. Simple. And for stopping in the water, give the amphib a SPOILER (works with '/' key) and make drag (in air) '=2000' or even '6000'. This WILL make the amphib stop REALLY quick when in the water. Tricks of the (my?) trade. I eat and sleep cfg and air files 24/7. That's my 'job'. So, unless you do the 'work' yourself, you won't 'see' any improvements (by modelers) for amphibs, or anything that floats, in FS9. None. Period. They want things to 'jive' with the SDK and won't take a 'tweak' for an answer. They don't have permission from MS to do otherwise. (Heaven help us).Chuck BNapamule

Chuck,I believe you miss-interpreted my question. I wasn't asking you to list what planes don't work, I was asking which ones that you use do not exhibit the characteristics describes by the OP, that is, they don't require excessive throttle to get moving and do weathercock into the wind.Nowhere in the OP was there any mention of how float planes behave in regards to turning as controlled by the pilot.If you have modified a .cfg file of say, the default Caravan so that it behaves more realistically in terms of

In reality, if a float plane is not tied up and the engine is running, it will move forward and always try to weathercock into the wind

then I, and others, would be greatly appreciative if you could post those changes here so we could try them first hand.It is my RW experience that float planes behave as the OP described and also they, BTW, do not stop on a dime unless they 1) are equipped with reversing props (turbo props) or b ) run into something.As an aside, your writing style comes off a little acerbic. These forums are here for those of us who wish to participate in constructive conversations about our hobby. Opening your post by calling us fools endears you to nobody. If you really are as troubled by posting replies as it seems to me, I think we will all be better served if you keep your attitudes to yourself. They won't be missed.Joe

Joe,I said 'foolish', not 'fools'. Foolish because you might think there is a ONE LINE FIX for the problem(s) ALL FS9 amphibs seem to have. Weatherwane, hard to get going ('like in wet cement') and 'either bogged down or full speed' charactieristic(s). We don't have to mention TURNING if you don't want-it's cool. And the reason I would use spoiler IN THE SIM (to 'stop on a dime' (did I say that?)) is that, unless you have reverse thrust, it's no fun parking it next to a dock. Coming in full throttle, shutting it off, and gliding into side of dock is not the way they do it in 'real life' (or is it?). I would rather throttle up in full control.(I have a Grumman Mallard with turbo engines that does move backwards in water with reverse thrust, which takes care of stopping (although is still has spoiler available for 'not realistic', but 'quicker than without spoiler' slowing.) I wouldn't have a fix for the C-208 as I don't fly that one (or most default a/c.Your observation that I am 'distrubed' (mentally/emotionally) is very astute. I got this way from working on modelers junk with garbage dynamics (amphibs included) for umpteen years now. So, I am either insane (borderline?), or a flight dynamics genius. It's anyone's guess/call. I wonder myself, sometimes. So no hard feelings there. So, you WON'T be getting any 'modified cfg file' for the Caravan from this nut case, because of: 'so we could try them first hand' (ie: so you can 'judge' if they meet YOUR (subjective?) standards?) So, instead, how about YOU showing me one FS9 amphib that is 'realistic' in the water, since you are a 'real life' amphib pilot, and let ME judge? How's that? (There ain't any, are there?) Case closed. No cfg. No cigar. I'm out.Chuck BNapamulePS: For original OP-I would gladly help you FIX the model you are having problems with. Just point me to a model/author, or a zip file name. (No torrents or payware.)

Yikes, sorry guys. I was expecting to receive an e-mail when new posts were added to the thread as I did before the forums were changed over. I guess I have to check my settings. Nonetheless, thanks for the responses.If I was to name all the floatplanes I fly that have these poor characteristics, I'd be on here all night. I was hoping there was some sort of "universal" fix that would make them all more realistic. I recall changing a friction setting in the FS9.cfg file to improve handling characteristics on pavement, and thought maybe there would be a similar setting regarding water. I suppose I could go try to tweak the aircraft.cfg files until I see some improvement (using some of the tips described above).I mostly fly the Beaver and Twin Otter on floats (several different models of each, depending on what mood I'm in). They both should move forward in the water at idle. The Beaver should only stop when it's tied up or beached. Same for the Twin, but speed can also be controlled with beta or reverse.I like the idea of adding the spoiler feature to use as a mock tie up. It would be pretty realistic to approach a dock at idle power, shut down just before and hit the "spoilers" as if tieing up.If I'm able to figure out anything with the water friction, I'll post it. Thanks for the suggestions.

CGTHX,Well, I got to looking at the C208 amphib just out of curiosity, as I never tried the amphib before. I have been involved with improving VEHICLES FDE's the last year or so. See my videos at YouTube (key in 'napamule'). I said I was taking a few MONTHS off, but here I am again, slaving (hehe). Here are 'my version' of floats (the whole section). I believe you will see a vast improvement in handling while it's in the water. The rest of my tweaks are for when it's in the air, but this in not place to post, so maybe should upload. How did it get past the MS beta testers I don't know, as the dynamics are garbage. Hope you like. Post back.[contact_points] //Modified, 09Jun22, by cb ('Napamule').//Gearpoint.0 = 1, -1.15, -5.25, -7.80, 1600, 0, 1.40, 30.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.80, 4.0, 4.0, 0, 175.0, 175.0point.1 = 1, -1.15, 5.25, -7.80, 1600, 0, 1.40, 30.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.80, 4.0, 4.0, 1, 175.0, 175.0point.2 = 1, -16.40, -5.25, -7.70, 1600, 1, 1.50, 0.0, 0.4, 2.5, 0.80, 4.0, 4.0, 2, 175.0, 175.0point.3 = 1, -16.40, 5.25, -7.70, 1600, 2, 1.50, 0.0, 0.4, 2.5, 0.80, 4.0, 4.0, 3, 175.0, 175.0//Floatspoint.4 = 4, -4.00, -5.25, -6.00, 1600, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.50, 12.5, 1.25, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0point.5 = 4, -4.00, 5.25, -6.00, 1600, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.50, 12.5, 1.25, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0point.6 = 4, -23.00, -5.25, -5.80, 1600, 0, 0.00, 20.0, 0.50, 12.5, 1.25, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0point.7 = 4, -23.00, 5.25, -5.80, 1600, 0, 0.00, 20.0, 0.50, 12.5, 1.25, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0////Floats Orig//point.4 = 4, -4.00, -5.25, -5.60, 1600, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.85, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0//point.5 = 4, -4.00, 5.25, -5.60, 1600, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.85, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0//point.6 = 4, -26.35, -5.25, -4.80, 1600, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.95, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0//point.7 = 4, -26.35, 5.25, -4.80, 1600, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.95, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0//Scrapespoint.8 = 2, -12.90, -26.00, 3.00, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0point.9 =2, -12.90 26.00, 3.00, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0point.10=2,-36.23, 0.00, 0.00, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0point.11=2, -0.50, 0.00, -2.17, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0point.12=2,-38.00, 0.00, 9.00, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 7, 0.0, 0.0//Water Rudders (DO NOT USE THESE-no need-do not work right! Floats have 'steering' built in.)//point.13= 5, -30.90, -5.250, -7.300, 1600, 0, 0.00, 50.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.00, 1.0, 1.2, 0, 0.0, 0.0//point.14= 5, -30.90, 5.250, -7.300, 1600, 0, 0.00, 50.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.00, 1.1, 1.5, 0, 0.0, 0.0I left the original floats values, so you can see what I changed. (I am giving away all my secrets-hehe). Just copy and paste, then comment out the duplicate (original section) and save. Oh, the trick for not zooming off when you go from reverse thrust to idle, is to use F3 (tap key repeatedly, but slowly) to go from negative 35 throttle to 0 throttle. If you hit F1 (cutoff) it will zoom off (I guess you noticed). Turbo props will do that. Time for my nap.Chuck BNapamule

Great! Thanks for posting these. I will try it out later today and let you know how it goes.

Hi there,I just tried the above mentioned changes to the aircraft.cfg file, and unfortunately the resulting flight dynamics were significantly worse than what was previously there. Basically, even before engine start the aircraft was violently shaking on the water, almost as though an earthquake was taking place. I started up hoping the issue would go away, and to my surprise, I still needed about 1400-1500 ft-lbs. of torque to get the thing moving on the water. It took 900-1000 ft-lbs. to keep it going forward and at that power setting the resulting taxi speed was 20-25 kts. If I reduced power to slow the taxi, it would decelerate quickly towards a stop. This is basically the same performance I've seen with other float planes prior to making the .cfg changes, only now with the changes added, the aircraft shakes the entire time it's on the water.Does this configuration work well on your system? Maybe I have some setting selected or deselected that is causing mine to not work properly. I guess I will keep digging. Thanks.

CBTHX,It does shake a lttle (hardly noticeable) but ONLY when it's on edge of water (partially on land). Otherwise it doesn't shake. Letting the wheels down stops any and all shaking. The other is vertex level of 21 in FS9.cfg. I changed mine to 19 as I drive vehicles, boats, and amphibs. A high vertex level will sharpen the scenery, but it also produces changes to surfaces. The only way to is to upload the matched cfg/air, I guess. But 'problems' don't bug me. I thrive on them.Do you have this?: reference_datum_position=13.100, 0.000, 0.000, and empty_weight_CG_position = -11.600, 0.000, -0.500 . If not, that is one 'factor'. This will influence lights, fuel tank locations (balance), engine location (balance/flight characteristics), and points location (longitudial) where there is going to be 'problems'. Changing these two lines to '0.000,0.000,0.000' will show you just how much difference it will make. Especially floats.Do you have this for moi's? This is one thing that will cause the shaking (low values for moi's). empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 12500.00 //7241.36empty_weight_roll_MOI = 9500.00 // 5618.57empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 11900.00 //10431.43I checked points just now, and there is a typo:' point.9 =2, -12.90 26.00' :(there should be a ',' after '-12.90'. See it? Put a ',' and then go check. I see it in the original cnt pts section, so it was not my fault, but I did miss it, so sorry about that. I am such a stickler for typos it makes me sick. But 'stuff' happens.Try these values for prop section (it's a 'constant speed' ('0') prop, so hopefully you don't have '1' (fixed pitch).propeller_moi = 10.0 //o=19.0 //Propeller moment of inertiabeta_max = 45.0 //Maximum blade pitch angle for constant speed prop, (degrees)beta_min = 2.0 //o=shaking=15.6 //Minimum blade pitch angle for constant speed prop, (degrees)Notice my notes after 'beta_min' --^There are also some changes for air file. The whole thing was is a mess because they did not adjust things to match the 'ref_datum_pos' values. Go figure.Chuck BNapamule

CBTHX,(And Joe). I made a video at YouTube to show what my amphib CAN do. Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5x2BN35w1I . Judge for yourself as that is 'real' or not. Although I do go faster than usual, to squeeze more 'action' in time alloted for video. Some is show off and some is 'new & improved' handling due to my FDE mode, intended for this particular model. Other models may require completely different parameters/values. This model has a 'ref datum pos' of 13.000, for example. It's outrageous from the start, in other words. No wonder simmers can't 'figure it out' and/or make effective changes.As far as the weathervane aspect, this a/c will sit in the water, 90 degrees (sideways) to a 10 kts wind and it takes 30 to 45 minutes for it to turn itself completely into the wind. I don't see this as being a big problem, and qualifys this as merely being picky. Rivet counters are also this (annoying) 'type'.Chuck BNapamule

Chuck, I watched your video, and if your happy with your mods I think that is great.Personally, I think the handling mods don't justify having the plane sit unrealistically high out of the water. And I like having animated water rudders. I also experienced a lot of shaking and out in the middle of Lake Michigan, not even close to shore.After all this I ask you to refer back to the original post where you will note that CGTHX was looking for a remedy to the "wet concrete" issue.If and when you find an answer for that please post it, many of us will appreciate it. Finally, as a comparison look at how your C208 sits in the water and compare it to this.Joe

Joe,I realize that the real Caravan sits lower in the water. It can be made to do that in Sim. Trouble is that there has to be a difference between wheel contact points and floats, otherwise you get sparks on asphalt/concrete, more so in turns, and when going from grass to runway. And with crash detection ON, the drop from wheel to water would sometimes cause crash (and reset you sim back to default start). Compromises are necessary sometimes.Satisfied? Maybe mostly forced to accept what I can not change. There is a lot of that in Sim. Not everything can be duplicated to be like 'real'. Especially if all you want is 'looks', at any expense. Bob Chicilo did a complete redo of data ref position for the Caravan (for FSX) and it sits lower in water and has animated rudders, so maybe you can try his in FS9 and see if it acts (or looks) more 'real' to you. I can't judge. I am not a 'real' pilot. So, I don't believe you will ever find a 'perfectly real' a/c (or satisfaction) in the sim. I am going to put a little more work into Caravan, and make another video this weekend. Going to 'tame' it down a bit, too (it acts like a race car-ha). The 'wet cement' part escapes me. That may be due to settings for engine. Like spool (up) rate? I think so. Chuck BNapamule