How do you get seat in proper position for takeoff and landing?

[Guest alande]

I read in a flying mag where they were discussing if a microsoft flight simulator geek could successfullyland a 747 if both pilots fell unconscious. They interviewed a pilot who said that even if one knew how to land in a simulator he probably would not even be able to adjust the seat properly because it is complicated.Well how complicated is it? Are there not some seat moving controls somewhere? Where are they and how wouldour MS geek be able to adjust his seat properly to save everybody and land the plane? :))ThanksAl

[jon b 2,050]

Its not complicated at all really. Depending on the company option there should be an up/down and a fore/aft rocker switch located on the inboard side of the seat. Or if the company hasnt shelled out for electric seats there are manual levers to press down and just shuffle into position like you would in a car.Seat position provided you can reach the pedals and controls isnt that important unless you are doing low vis work( where the ideal seating position is required to have the optimum outside view to spot the aproach lights)That would really be the least of your worries!Cheers Jon

[vivek 0]

yeah,may be this pilot is scarred that he may loose his job to potential fs flyers in future!there definitely has to be a button or levers to change the position of seats somewhere in and around the seats itself,if it was elsewhere pmdg would have simulated that as wellwhat a stupid excuse this pilot has offered,i think in any emergency situation,it would take sometime for a simmer to even get oriented in an aircraft cockpit,like the previous post rightly said it is the least of your worriesvivek

[Qavion 19]

Whatever you do, don't push the ejector button by mistake ; )The mechanical type seat is probably the most difficult.There is a medium sized lever towards the rear of the seat to move the seat back and forward (The seat track is L-shaped, so you may need to move the seat sideways first before you move it forwards).There is a large lever on the opposite side for adjusting height.Recline, lumbar, etc are less important.With all manual controls, you have to assist the seat mechanism. e.g. lift up your *ss when adjusting the height upwards.Knowing where to position your seat is one of the most important things to know. You need a good view of the outside as well as the inside. There is an "+" on the side window pillar where your eye should be. Some airlines have an eye alignment device on the centre window pillar.Rudder pedals have to be adjusted to suit your leg length (your eyes may be in the right spot, but you don't want your knees around your ears). There is a winder above the rudder pedals for this. You will have to pull the handle towards you to use the winder.I assume everyone knows how to adjust their 5 point seat harnesses(?).Rgds.Q>

[vivek 0]

Hi,i wonder how many simmers dream of an some thing happening to one or both the pilots and be called upon to land,it is a situation unlikely to ever happen,when it did once in india it was because one of the pilots did not arrive in time and one who was on leave but was travelling on a vacation in the same aircraft was called up to fly the aircraftits time one stopped dreamingthere was another occasion when both the pilots became uncons,this was beacuse of compression related issue and the aircraft crash landed in tha case to the best of my knowledge.vivek

[Guest alande]

Thanks everyone for your great replies. It would be amazing if a FS geek saved the day and succesfully landed an airliner in an emergency. I think it very unlikely but it's a nice dream and learning with the pmdg 747 is a fun hobby.Al

[Guest MikeKear]

I've just spent a while trying to find once more the interesting article i found on this very subject a few months ago. Perhaps someone else can find it.Anyway, I think it was someone writing a feature article for AVSIM or FLIGHTSIM.com. The premise was to test the theory that an experienced flight sim 737 pilot could indeed walk into a B737 cockpit in just such an emergency and bring the aircraft safely to land, to the adoring cheers of a grateful nation. The first problem was that there weren't any airlines all that keen to lend the author a B737 to play with to test the theory. So he did the next best thing - he got time in a real simulator. He got the simulator operator to set it up so that when he went into the simulator, the aircraft was just approaching the TOD and the test was to see if, with no coaching and no time to familiarise himself, he'd be able (or not) to land the B737 safely. It was a fascinating article, not least because this author was living out the very scenario that we've all imagined.As it turned out, he was able to land the B737 safely, in a regular ILS landing, then several times more in different scenarios, each somewhat more complicated than the last - cross winds, non-precision, low visibility etc.He said that the biggest issue for him was the additional senses - peripheral vision played more of a role than in his FS flying. And the feel of the much more solid yoke and rudders compared to his light plastic FS joystick took a bit of getting used to. But he said he was surprised at how similar to the real thing his FS experience was. That he was able to bring the aircraft down safely to a stop and all the gauges were where he expected them to be, all the switches were where he expected them to be, and he felt pretty comfortable in the pilot's seat.It's a while since i read that article, but if i recall correctly, in the hour or so he had allocated to him by the airline, he brought the B737 safely to land in different scenarios about a dozen times.Now i feel sure that the author of the article (whose name is still eluding me) wasnt a novice at FS, and had many hours experience on a PMDG737, but still, it kind of proved the theory that an experienced FS pilot could indeed step in and land a real aircraft in such an emergency. If i manage to find the article again, I'll post the link here for you all. I'm sure you'd love it.

[FleaJump 7]

The TV show "Mythbusters" experimented on that very premise in a full motion simulator, but they added a further degree of difficulty by having the emergency pilot be someone who had ZERO real or simulator flight time.As expected, things quickly spiralled out of control when there was no help being offered to the pilot over the radio, but when that crucial radio help to the first-time pilot was added to the mix, and the ADI, speed and flap extension parameters were followed for the final approach, safe, though hairy landings were made on the first approach by the total greenhorn.Tony Selario

[wannabeeagle 0]

HiRegarding flight simmer landing a real airplane:I've actually somehow made the experiment myself, with the twist that after spending a lot of time at my PC with the PMDG B737NG, I decided to achieve a PPL in real life.Having flown around 180 hours in small aircrafts, I still had the dream of trying the B737 in a full motion simulator, and booked an one hour session at Virtual Aviation in Gatwick, UK. They actually called me beforehand to discuss preparations, and told me that I would be amazed at the reality of PMDG compared to the simulator - which is so close as you can possibly get to the real thing.Of course it is overwhelming when You find yourself strapped up in the left seat in the simulators flight deck surrounded by knobs and handles, but it still looks somewhat familiar. But the feel is quite different - i could not even arm the speed brakes correctly.After take off we made a couple of landings in Heathrow and two circling approaches into Innsbruch RWY 08. All five landings survivable, thank God.Initially the flying was OK, but it suddenly became kind of scary when You approached the runway, feeling like sitting atop a 60 tons monster on collision course with the planet Earth with a speed of 141 KIAS. I flared instinctively as I would do in my Piper 28, which resulted in a quite hard touch down, but by no means lethal.After a couple of more landings, I gradually achieved the technique of flying the big airplane to the ground while slowly retarding the throttles but it required some getting used to.But don't get fooled by the PC. Everything in the PMDG simulator on the PC is very realistic, but your living room is behaving no way like a flight deck, and to have your own *ss in real air is really something else. If a "simmer" could land an airplane succesfully in an emergency I don't know, but my gut feeling is that it would require a lot more than avarage luck. So I would not be too optimistic about it.On the other hand, I recently read of a private pilot, who made an emergency landing in a tree top inspired by something he read in a book as a kid. He could walk away from the experience himself. So why not???Regards Ole

[jolk64 0]

Hi All, Sorry for my English, as I'm far for being a native speaker.I'm a Simulation fan, but not an Hardcore one, I'm flying PMDG aircrafts on IVAO but not managing failure and "non regular" procedures. I have spent around 80 hours in a real C172, and I have the great chance to have 2 of my best friends real instructors in 2 different airlines (one on B737 and one on A320)I had a chance to attend check rides in both B737 and A320, and then, after the debriefing, to fly these babies for an hour with my friend beside me.It happened only once in each simulator, so my experience is very limited. Here are few feedbacks from these incredible experiences:(in both cases we landed several times with no wind to begin, and adding some Xwind after)- I know most of the knobs / buttons position in PMDG, but it was not easy to found them quickly in the real. Moving a mouse and your arms in a 3D space is really different.- Having my friend beside me, was removing a lot of pressure, but still the level of pressure was very high. Few times my friend was helping me, avoiding me to forgot some checklist item or because the action was a bit to slow. I cannot imagine the pressure if I was really alone- My first B737 landing was bit hard but safe, with the A320, I had to go around, approach was not too bad, but I pulled the stick and held it, like with my C172, forgetting that with an Airbus we have just to pull to achieve the correct angle and them to release immediately the stick (it is basic but with the level of pressure and excitement I had forgotten I was in an Airbus). The result was catastrophic, the plane went up with a very high angle and we had to go around.- During my go around, my friend managed most of the task, (flaps, gear, FCU

[Krister 51]

The eternal flightsim question! :( It seems like when people contemplate this scenario they always assume that our hero will actually be handling the flight controls (yoke, pedals and throttle). At least in my mind the chances of getting safely down on the ground is biggest if you just operate the AP, FMC and configure the aircraft properly (Flaps, speed, gear, Autobreak, Speedbrake) and instead let the aircraft fly descent, approach and landing. Perhaps I miss something elementary but I feel there wouldn't be much I would do differently compared to what a real pilot would do who would fly the same kind of approach. Well, except panicking, getting tunnel vision and forgetting eveything I know from the sim, but that's another story! My point is, aren't the procedures I've learned to apply in order to operate the AP and FMC in PMDG enough to get the airplane reasonably safe down. What I've seen in the ITVV movies isn't far from what I do myself since I'm learning from them. They key factor instead being somehow trying to remain calm and focused and not forgetting my knowledge from the sim. Or am I just hallucinating?!

[Guest alande]

Thanks for those fantastic experiences. I think the full autoland approach would be the most likely for a simmer to succeed with since there is less risk of yanking the yoke to much because of panicking. Still if the cockpit door was locked, I heard they are unopenable from the outside for security, then it would be game over, unless the stewardess had a key or something. You would have to hope the pilots would wake up from unconsciousness in the nick of time.Al

[Guest Ray51]

I think most people would be overwhelmed in an emergency. I has been my experience that untrained people tend to freeze and lose focus in an emergency. Knowledge alone will not do you any good if you are not about to handle your own fear and focus. People that have had military type emergency training where complex system operation under pressure would most likely fair the best. Those of you that have endured realistic training by the military know what I am talking about. We all remember our first taste of the emergency training and just how overwhelmed we were at first. Knowing the amount of time and effort the military spends to prepare you for one emergency condition I would have to say it would be the exception not the rule to be able to handle an airliner in a real emergency. Lets face it no, matter how scared we were in training we knew we wouldn't really die. Only when you face your death in an emergency condition you are trained for do you get the real stress and pressure. Only then do you find out if you measure up.

[Krister 51]

I think most people would be overwhelmed in an emergency. I has been my experience that untrained people tend to freeze and lose focus in an emergency. Knowledge alone will not do you any good if you are not about to handle your own fear and focus. People that have had military type emergency training where complex system operation under pressure would most likely fair the best. Those of you that have endured realistic training by the military know what I am talking about. We all remember our first taste of the emergency training and just how overwhelmed we were at first. Knowing the amount of time and effort the military spends to prepare you for one emergency condition I would have to say it would be the exception not the rule to be able to handle an airliner in a real emergency. Lets face it no, matter how scared we were in training we knew we wouldn't really die. Only when you face your death in an emergency condition you are trained for do you get the real stress and pressure. Only then do you find out if you measure up.

I am afraid that what you say Ray really sums up the inevitable outcome - doom! It's one thing to sit casually infront of your computer with a beverage of your choice and another sitting there in a real cockpit being overwhelmed by the seriousness of the situation and having your mind going blank. "Gear?! What gear?!?! What is a gear and why do I need it?!? Why are we moving so fast?! How do I pause this thing?"

[jon b 2,050]

Hi,Just to turn this conversation on its head a little I`ll offer the following story.I`ve spent the last 13 years flying nothing but real 747-400s but I`m also a very keen simmer.I`ve recently been enjoying flying VFR in the realair Duke but I particually enjoy flying the Carenado 152 which I bought to fly out of Earthsims Alderney scenery a couple of weeks ago as I did my PPL some 19 years ago in the channel Islands on a 152, its really stired up some old memories for me.The Carenado aircraft really captures the feel of those old 152s so well and its such a pleasant aircraft to fly it really sparked my interest in light aircraft and PPL flying again.So last weekend I went down to a local airfield and went for a "trial lesson" in a PA38 tomahawk! Bearing in mind I`m a 744 captain with 10,000+ hrs I was let of the effects of control briefing and allowed to do the take off fly around and a few circuits under the guidance of the splendid instructor peter. Now as I mentioned I`ve only flown glass and fmc for the last 13 years and havnt floown anything light for about 16 years but with all my sim time recently in light aircraft it felt really familiar and I was able to get away without making a complete fool of myself! The main difference from the sim is the noise and being thrown around by turbulence, as Ole says your front room is not a flight deck! and thats a good point.I made a few basic errors, I forgot the old attitude- power- trim routine of levelling off.I did what I`d do in a 74 and at 900ft pull the power off and start lowering the nose to level at 1000ft, of course doing that in a tomahawk I just leveled at 910ft and 70kts! I also almost lined up on the wrong runway Im ashamed to say, I just couldnt comprehend that the correct runway was so close in the visual circuit I thought we must be going for one further away,Im used to an 8 mile final being short! It was a fantastic afternoon and my sim knowledge certainly helped in what was an alien enviroment to me. Ray and Krister also make good points about the stress of the situation, had the instructor become incapacitated Im sure I could have got it down unaided but it might not have been all that pretty by PPL standards. Going the other way and having experience in simming and or light aircraft flying and suddenly finding yourself with a 747 strapped to your back would be somewhat overwhelming I feel. The knowledge is there,its just if you`d have the metal to pull it off, you`d need a very cool head,I was shaking with adrenalin after my short ride in a tomahawk, landing a 74 single pilot with no experience? you`d need years of counseling! but I would still maintain someone skilled in PMDG 747 flying could pull it off, in theory at least.The full flight sims are good but its still nothing like landing one of these things for real at night in a crosswind knowing that your strapped into it and theres 400 real people sat behind you.CheersJon