jon b

Having a foot in both camps I totally agree with all that’s being discussed here. I refer to my simming more as digital aviation , and as such a digital aircraft has a validity of its own, it has to feel and fly right in its own right, not just be an exact replica of the real world counterpart if that replication would make the aircraft feel wrong in the sim, with flight simulation controllers . A digital aircraft should have its own identity to some degree, very close to but seperate from its real world counterpart . The PC12 mentioned being a major case in point. Because rigging sim controls up to a real aircraft and flying using those controls the same aircraft would feel completely different.

🤔 I’ve seen this 3 times now, I’ve had a crosswind just under 90 degrees to the runway 15 gusting 20 kts,so nothing major, and it’s happened each time on the base turn to finals, the aircraft has rolled quite violently and entered a side slip. It dropped a wing and the stick shaker has triggered on each occasion as it instantly lost about 20 knots. It required prompt recovery action, and I managed to recover the first 2, this last one however despite my best efforts rolled inverted and I lost the aircraft. I was at least 25kt above VAPP, something a little quirky is happening.

I was really hoping she wasn’t going to do one of her trade mark “ slipsy doodles “ with a fuselage mounted jet engined aircraft…. But never mind.

Yes no issues flying with the YD on or off, likewise with the autopilot on or off it’s still there. If it wasn’t for the physical vibration I’m picking up through the motion platform I’d probably be completely unaware of it. I’ll maybe have a test flight later and make a comparison with YD on and off and adverse yaw to see if the YD is actually doing much, although I don’t think the YD does a lot in most sims really.

Good question, it seems to be there all the time, when I did the visual exterior check I was straight and level. It’s sufficient to be picked up as airframe vibration by the motion control software reading the simulator’s telemetry, however from what I can see it doesn’t seem to be affecting the handling in any way.

The chopiness / vibration that I mentioned I was feeling through my motion rig that I thought may be yaw damper, well it definitely is. The yaw damper causing the rudder to flutter. Turning the YD off eliminates the vibration, and observing from an external view in flight you can see the rudder has some high frequency flutter. I don’t think you’ll notice it unless you have a motion platform, the motion software can pick it up in the telemetry , but I don’t think it’s affecting the handling from what I can tell. It could perhaps do with smoothing out or eliminating at some point in a future update if anyone connected is reading this.

No , that wasn’t me. We just left it there and went back to Manchester on a coach as we were out of duty hours. They shipped another crew down by coach to fly it back up to Manchester.

I did that one on a motorbike, being scared of heights and being buffeted by the wind I didn’t enjoy it at all and just started at the tarmac in font of my wheel the whole way over.

I have EGBB installed but from maccosim , but I don’t think I’ve ever flown in there in the sim so can’t comment on its quality, it’s something I installed as a diversion airfield. I once diverted a real 747 into EGBB due to 2 windshear go arounds at EGCC, so it’s one I like to keep on standby.

There’s a guy on FSelite who makes some interesting, and valid observations about the sovereign vs the phenom’s flight model. I think JYW hit the nail on the head when he said the phenom team has spent development time making an overall day in the life of a corporate jet pilot experience with lots of peripheral parts, where as the sovereign team have concentrated more on the engineering of flight model. Not saying it makes one overall better than the other it depends on what you are looking for, horses for courses and all that. Yes, I’m really pleased by the inclusion of the flight test package as that’s the sort of flying I normally do, rather than the run of the mill A to B stuff.

Yes, or instruments of torture, depending on why you’re in there !

@UrgentSiesta Ironically I’ve just been doing my test flying over the North Sea and circuits at Humberside so had I got multiplayer on I might have spotter Bill @JYW . I’ve been up to 10,000ft did some steep turns, clean stalls, landing config stalls, and departure stalls, accelerated to over speed and deceleration with full speed brake. An inflight shut down and restart followed by an emergency descent and a return to Humberside for circuits. All the above felt good and behaviour was as expected, single engine work felt realistic and fairly benign to handle, it’s over 30 years since I last flew a little citation single engine but I remember that feeling similarly benign with the fuselage mounted engines. I just wish I had some power, speed , config diagrams for the circuits so had to make something up, 180-190 downwind flaps 1 seemed ok for now, but probably way too fast. The approaches were flown using AoA rather than bugging a Vref, and were very stable. All in all I’d say you’d be very pleased with the sovereign’s flight model, I know I am , it flies beautifully , really does. Using a motion rig and force feedback controls I’ve noticed a couple of things coming through. There’s quite a big trim change required with speed change, not so much with config changes.Secondly I’m feeling an almost constant light choppiness through the motion platform, I quite like it to be honest, it feels realistic to flying. I can’t be certain, more testing required but I think it might be an unintentional mid frequency input from the yaw damper, as when I turned the YD off downwind for landing it seemed to go away, may just have been a coincidence. As to this vs the Phenom? I think both flight models are excellent and model their respective aircraft very well and probably at a similar level, however as a personal preference the Sovereign just feels bigger and more solid which I personally prefer. I’ve not flown the Phenom since last week, and only just had an hour in the sovereign so it’s hard to call the better one, but I do feel there is something a little deeper in the sovereign’s flight modelling and I did read there were several sovereign pilots developing the aircraft so I’m sure there are some genuine handling quirks they’ve baked in there. The touch and go roll outs were very stable and realistic and felt better than the Phenom’s, though I’ve not tried the Phenom’s new high speed steering damper update. Circuits though were a absolute joy to fly in the sovereign. Also my loading issues from my earlier first load have gone so it must have been a first load hiccup. Only had an hour up doing an engineering check out type flight but from what I’ve experienced so far I’m really, really ,liking it. And I absolutely love having the flight test probe fitted on the nose, in VR it’s a really great 3D experience

I’m now cheating and I’ve found and pulled the A/T circuit breaker which did the trick ! Maybe that’s what’s done on the real aircraft and sim when it needs to be stalled for a check ride.

Cheers Ryan, I’ve been clicking that one , but it doesn’t stop the speed protection auto throttle wake up, it think it must just be the disconnect. So on the 787 at least you can disconnect the A/T using buttons which are also on the throttles, however that only disconnects the A/T it’s still armed so you’ll also still get an A/T wake up at low speed. To prevent that happening for example you want to deliberately stall, you have to switch off the arm switches, which on the 787 are on the left of the MCP, so I’m trying to find the equivalent disarm rather than just disconnect switch or button on the sovereign, if it even has such a thing.

Any body spotted an auto throttle disarm switch ? I’m trying to do some handling tests including stalls, but once you get into the slow speed regime you get speed protection from an auto throttle wake up. Maybe it’s just me but loading in ready to fly its default state was just fumes in the tanks and I suffered flame outs before I could take off. I know fuel prices are high but really ? And also the default loading was aft of the rear C/G envelope. I’ve been flying both sims and real aircraft for several decades now but I’m afraid I wasn’t born with an innate ability to fly a citation sovereign, so if you’re going to release a high definition aircraft, please , please ship it with a manual or at least a quick start guide