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Guest Ken_Salter

Vinka / Statement by Kari Virtanen

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I am sorry about all the problems I have caused. I admit that I have studied Realair airfile closely at the end of Vinka-project and find some values that was helpfull to make Vinka more stable and save my time. This is the way I have always worked, reading forums, studying airfiles and testing different values. So I couldn't suspect this kind of reaction, if I have I would have made contact for Rob Young before using those. Well, I am wiser and watchful now with these things.For those who do not understand airfile-things I like to say following. Vinka's airfile is not copied airfile, the work has been long. But inside the airfile is some values same or similar than Realair's airfile, finded when I study their work.We now have finded solution that will be good for us, good for Realair, and good for simming community. Final solution and statement will be published as soon as we get them ready and approved from both sides.

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KariI am glad you have sorted this in a friendly way. The Fouga was one of my favourite aircraft and gave me a lot of pleasure so many thanks for your work.Peter

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KariI know you pretty well now through all our work together on the 'Red Arrows' and other things ... and I am confident enough to say that others should know that there is NO WAY that you would have pirated others' work intentionally. Everyone in this community learns from others, and you and Mikko yourselves are pioneers in this respect; what has changed is that there are now many more commercial pressures than there used to be. This is still a hobby, yes; but the number of payware products is growing fast on the back of a rapidly expanding industry. Thus, the payware producers, inevitably, are sensitive to every windshift.Let's hope the fun stays in our hobby at the end of the day. Well done for all your excellent work on the Vinka; I'm reassured to know that those who have challenged you on this issue are all gentlemen and thus we shall all see your aircraft in the libraries again soon.Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/newlogo.jpg

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Kari, I'm glad to hear you've worked this out. The Vinka's a great plane, and I'm looking forward to flying it again.

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This reminds me of the IBM PC which was heavily copyrighted with it's BIOS.What took place was actually why we have computers today without IBM receiving a dime and no laws being broken.IBM had a lock on their systems and BIOS and other companies wanted to copy them. What they did was tell groups of programmers what needs to be accomplished and what should be shown to a user.So in essence they said there should be a box on the screen at such and such a location with such and such a color etc.By doing that they can bypass the copyright since they just arrived with the same result with maybe SIMILAR values or some identical code but it is not identical.That is NOT Reverse Engineering and nothing was stolen.Here is my patented formula: 3 + 3 = 6I want you to give me the same result with your own formula! There will be TONS of methods all with the same result. That is how I see it myself.9 - 3 = 6 <--- AH HA there is a 3 in there!! :-lol

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What you say is true, except the analogy doesn't work here. Instead of just numbers to arrive at the expected results, these air.files come out looking more as identifiable "finger prints" (actually plot points on a graph)which are quite easy to compare.But I'm glad the issues are taken care of.L.Adamson

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Kari (and Rob),Kudos to the two of you. Working this one out and keeping things on a friendly basis makes a better community for all of us.Thanks for your maturity and good grace in this affair.Best,Mike MacKuen

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Woops than that is definitely a different animal altogether. :-( Glad to see there is amicable talks however.

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Hi Kari,I am very glad that it has been sorted out in a calm and resonable manner, It is good that the package is going to be made avaliable again, it certainly is one of the best freeware packages around.Thanks to you and everyone involved in bringing this package to usDan

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Kari -I commend the manner in which you took care of this difficulty. I think certain other people *cough*MAAM affair*cough* could learn something.

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>I commend the manner in which you took care of this>difficulty. I think certain other people *cough*MAAM>affair*cough* could learn something.Very wise to bring that up again,Fred,thanks, *cough*. Bachelor's wives and maiden's childeren are well thaught.Jan VisserMAAM-SIM

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>Very wise to bring that up again,Fred,thanks, *cough*.>Bachelor's wives and maiden's childeren are well thaught.No problemo, glad to obliege. Can't say I have heard that phrase about Bachelors wives before.

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That's all well and good, Dan... I don't know what country Real Air calls "home", but the folks who gave us the Vinka are not subject to U.S. law. This is a matter that falls to the Berne Convention (which has plenty of substance, but little authority).But none of that matters. The important thing here is that the parties involved seem to be resolving the matter in private (such a dispute has no place in public forums, where it can only be inflamed by speculation, innuendo, and the inevitable sabre rattling). Handling such a dispute in private is the best path for the parties involved, and good for the hobby.That being said, perhaps it's best that we leave these folks to do what they will agree to do.

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And a "quote" from the message you posted:"Even if someone uses the same equation to write a program in the same language to perform the same function as Cliff did, Cliff's copyright may not have been violated. As long as the second expression is otherwise distinct from the first, a separate copyright may be established. This expression is based on the programmer's own style of coding, which represents his own unique expression of an otherwise mechanical process. Remember, the method represents an idea and cannot be copyright-protected. "In this case, the actual graphical "plotted point" representation of the specific files in question were exact, or near duplicates, whereas the default's were completely different. In other words, as in the "bold" sentence, these files were not distinct from the first. I have seen them. It wasn't just a matter of reaching the same conclusion. And BTW ----- it's only a portion of the air.files that were questioned.L.Adamson

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