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Dark Moment

ATC - the DC-3 a second-class citizen?

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I've actually been doing a bit of flying recently, having laid down my paintbrush for a while. When not exploring peaks and valleys in something far too fast, I've been piloting a few of my repaints of Jan Visser's bird in the areas they were repainted for. Many of those areas are remote, and I don't see much traffic; but I've hit upon a problem to which most of you probably know the answer, but I don't. I can't find anything in the FS Help pages.It's all to do with speed. I was happily flying along in "Flagship Knoxville" last night into Chicago O'Hare, and sure enough it was busy. ATC vectored me into the relevant runway for arrival and told me I was number one for landing. So far so good, and I turned for my approach on final, right on the numbers. ATC then spoke to United someone or other (a 767) and told them they were number two for landing on the same runway. Fine. A few minutes passed. All of a sudden, Mr. United "couldn't-slow-down-if-I-tried-mate" 767 steamed over my head at 50 feet; I nearly fell out of my seat. Needless to say, he landed ahead of me, but .... to add insult to injury ... ATC then told me to go around. GO AROUND!? ME? I'd be up there another week if I did that, LOL. Anyway, you get my point.All the ATC Help tells me is that ATC may request ME to alter my speed to accommodate other aircraft movements. They didn't, and anyway I'm not going to start trying to bring in my Dakotas at 160 knots. What about Mr. United? What to do, O wise ones? Go and find a quiet little runway somewhere else? Or must I fly 767s?Mark "Dark Moment" BeaumontP.S. My repaint list of Jan's 'plane is reproduced here for anyone interested in the world's finest aircraft:Cathay Pacific 'Betsy' VR-HDB (2) CPABETSY.ZIP (includes panel by Jorge Salas)Cathay Pacific 'Betsy' Cargo CPABETSY2.ZIP (only at www.swiremariners.comcxkaitak.html)Cathay Pacific 'Nikki' VR-HDA CPANIKKI.ZIPAnsett MAL VH-MAL ('Betsy') DC3ANSOC.ZIPAnsett PNG VH-MAL ('Betsy') DC3ANSNC.ZIP (Pratt & Whitney engines)Airlines of NSW 'Viewmaster' (P&Ws) DC3ANSW.ZIPBush Pilots Airways VH-MAL ('Betsy') DC3BPA.ZIPAir Queensland VH-MAL ('Betsy') DC3AQAC.ZIPBBA Cargo VH-BAB DC3BBA.ZIPBOAC G-AGHE DC3BOAC2.ZIPDan-Air G-AMPP DC3DAN.ZIPAmerican Airlines N21798 DC3AAFK.ZIPLambair CF-CBJ DC3LAMB.ZIPAir Vietnam XV-NIA DC3VIET.ZIP, DC3VIET2.ZIP (includes flight plans)Bahamas Airways VP-BBU DC3BAHAM.ZIPDelta Air Lines NC28341 DC3DELTA.ZIPSwiss Air Lines HB-IRN DC3SWISS.ZIPC-47 BBMF ZA947, Aces High N147DC C47RAF2.ZIPC-47 USAAF 41-18385 C47BETSY.ZIPAll the above will benefit from the recommended upgrade DC3AIR.ZIP. The following uploads already have this upgrade:Ansett ANA 'Cargomaster' DC3ANSCA.ZIPAirlines of NSW 'Viewmaster' (Wrights) DC3ANSW2.ZIPBEA 'Pionair' G-AHCZ DC3BEAPI.ZIP Qantas VH-EDC DC3QNTAS.ZIPCambrian Airways G-AGHM, G-AHCZ DC3CAMB2.ZIP, DC3CAMUP.ZIPAir France 'Aeropostale' F-BAIF DC3AIRFR.ZIPMandated Airlines PNG VH-MAL DC3MANDA.ZIPhttp://www.swiremariners.com/newlogo.jpg

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I had that happen once in a Dash-8, except the jet didn't pass me, he rear-ended me and my flight ended abruptly. Talk about a loss of separation! Perhaps such things won't happen in FS2004.

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It also happens in a MD80, DC9, 737, 757, 767, etc., etc..... If you try to land at 135-140 kts there's always another a/c trying to blow your doors off. Hopefully, this is finally fixed in FS2004.

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As far as I'm concered, the DC-3 will never be a second class citizen. However, ATC whether real or simulated may have a very different opinion of an aircraft that has a landing speed of 85 MPH when trying to fit it into traffic at a major airport.>They didn't, and anyway I'm not going to start trying to bring in my Dakotas at 160 knotsto add insult to injury ... ATC then told me to go around. GO AROUND!? ME? I'd be up there another week if I did that, LOL. Anyway, you get my point

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Interesting what you say about giving it stick in smaller planes in the real world to avoid having 500 peanut-munchers up the blurter. It does make some sense, although I suppose realistically people just don't plan on taking their elderly or leisurely airframes in and out of somewhere like O'Hare or equivalent at peak times. That's what GA airports are for, right?Talking about "Good Day" ... are there other voices available for ATC (them out there and us in the cockpit) that can introduce a touch of Europe or whatever? It's a little weird when landing Ariana Airlines in Kabul to hear Atlanta's finest acknowledging ATC's instructions.Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/newlogo.jpg

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LOL, happened to me last night into San Antonio. Was going to do a touch and go in my sparkling T-1 then head over to Randolph AFB for the full-stop. ATC tells me I'm number one, and tells a Southwest 737 they're number 2 following the Beech. Well, low and behold, TCAS goes crazy, then.... silent. All of a sudden, airspeed drops to 50 knots, I'm in a sharp dive and then Southwest 737 is laughing it's way onto my runway, with me windowscreen full of Texas dirt!Yes I hope FS2K4 helps with this.

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<<<>>>Mmmm ... now let's see:The Flaps 30 Landing Flap Maneuvering speed (LFMS, or Vref) for a 767-300 with P&Ws ranges from 172 knots at 400 tonnes down to 127 knots at 240 tonnes weight (source: POSKY performance manual). So if I can just get the buzzards to fly empty - which, sadly, is what half of them seem to be doing in the real world these days - then there's only 40 knots between them and poor old "Betsy". At least that will make for a gentler mid-air collision, although the result will be the same, I fear. Now where's that weight management tool for AI traffic?Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/newlogo.jpg

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