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Sonar5

Question on Flightsim.com....

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This question does not regard AVSIM, but might be related to simming sites in the internet in general. Well, I guess my question is: Does Flightsim.com pays for freeware uploads into their system? They certainly charge for access to their database, (free-limited access is an impossibility), but do the freeware developers get a share of the pie? I've seen they have a lot of advertisement, so it is not like they are providing the service for free, it would seem to me. Are the advertisements not enough? Just wondering, out of the blue :)M.A.X.

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This is being a HUGE contoversy over there because many people think fs.com "calims" that access is free and in that way they get stuff uploaded for paying customers.I wont say what I think about it but kind a make me wonder how AVSIM can keep it free(and unlimited) but fs.com can't.I wouldn't imagine all AVSIM operating stuff are rich and they dont care how much bandwidth they pay.(and, Im aware of of the dificulty and the donations on AVSIM)Me thikns AVSIM rocks both in forum and files but that's my personal opinion.

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fs.com does not pay anyone anything. They DO charge for access, and keep a number of free logins for people who don't want to pay for freeware. How many free logins there are I don't know, but given the trouble I and many others have getting in it is getting less and less.Those free logins seem a joke by now, meant to keep the appearance of not being a paysite (as most freeware authors state specifically that paysites cannot host their stuff...).Advertising at this time does not bring a lot of income to websites. 2 years ago you could get $0.10 for each banner shown, not you're lucky if you get $0.01 for each time someone clicks on a banner. With a click-through rate of at most 0.01 for most banners that's a drop in advertising income of about 99.99% unless you increase the number of bannerads. Popups give more income, but those tend to drive visitors away because they are so incredibly annoying.Avsim gets some donations (don't ask me how much), and has income through the online store (again, I don't know how much), but I do think that most of the running cost does indeed come out of the pockets of the staff.

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Why don't you contact Nels directly and ask him? There has been much said about the access, and the uploading of files, and Nels has responded to both questions. Do a search of the flightsim network conferences forums using "Nels" as the search criteria, and it should pop right up. Also, his e-mail address is readily available there, as well.Darrell

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It's free for me.I've never had login problems other than hitting F5 10 times at the very most.As for downloading files, their servers are very, very busy so downloads take a little longer than they do here.If you can't get through over there, then you haven't read the instructions or have failed to understand & follow them properly.The Avsim site has the one click approach for the latest uploads.It's just an easier, happier way to do things. It's logical! It rocks.

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Darrell, to be fair, I also think you need to also state that you are a "staffer", "moderator" or whatever over there. Correct?

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Yes, Tom, I am a moderator there, (a volunteer, with no benefit other than being cussed out by some because I've removed or locked their post), but I really don't see where that makes a difference. I enjoy both Avsim and FS.com, and visit both many times a day. I guess I don't understand the need to post the question here to begin with. When I'm looking for information, I try to directly to the source, and not take a circular route. I was merely trying to direct the question to the answer, and also provide a little information.The post by Ihor seems to indicate that I was having a problem, which I was not. That's why I assumed that his post was directed at someone else. Nothing more, nothing less.Darrell

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Darrel, The reason why I posted it here was because I used to be able to log in before, but now it is almost impossible. I have followed the same procedure, many a times, checked on my settings on my browser, but still, the same, I can't log in. If I am doing something wrong I am not sure. I thought that maybe FlightSim.com was going through a transition phase where they would become completely a pay-site, but I wondered how that would work with freeware developers. M.A.X.

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I understand. However, there is no problem logging into the FlightSim Network Conferences forums,(hosted and run by Nels, the owner of flightsim.com), and posing your question there. You will most likely get an answer quicker from there, rather than the Avsim forums. The FS Network forums are the same as these forums used to be, so I'm sure you are familiar with the way they work. In fact, once you've logged into either the Avsim or FSNetwork forums, there is no need to log out.I don't know if you are a member of the FSNetwork forums or not, but I'd like to extend this invitation to join. I'm not trying to steer users from this forum, as I believe that both places offer a lot of advice and help. After all, the more resources that we have available to us can only serve to make our hobby more enjoyable.Darrell

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Sorry! :-)I wasn't sure whether we had the beginning of another "I can't login etc. etc." type of thread. Sorry for the wrong positioning of my reply, I'll try to be a bit more careful in the future.It was more directed at M.A.X. and the reply that followed that.

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MikeAlphaXray, just to warn you if you join fs.com, you are not allowed to ask stupid questions(which are decided by few "I'm moderator :-sae" people, not real moderators) and you will be bashed in a minute.In that case, ignore bashing, don't even reply, and wait for someone with less total posts to response to your question:)Moderators do good job over there so you might not notice such posts that much, but it happnes.

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You said "I'm a subscriber at fs.com, but prior to joining up....". I thought that was somewhat of an understatement. :) Just wanted to make sure that full disclosure was in effect. :)

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Of a poor choice of words!;)By "joining up", I should have said "subscribing". As to any question of me being a staffer at fs.com, I am not. I simply volunteered to be a "Moderator", as I've done here 3 or 4 times in the last 3 or 4 years.I'm sure I receive the same kind of pay as the Avsim moderators do. Some praise when you do a good job, and lots of barbs when someone disagrees with the action taken. (If the Avsim mods receive salary, I guess I'm at the wrong spot). :-lolLater,Darrell

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Yup.. same pay and same benefits, I am sure. :-lol

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Some moderators should receive, at least, hazarous duty pay. :)Brent

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Hi Max,Just thought I would add a couple cents here. While the Freeware authors do not receive any compensation, some are offered FREE access as a First Class Subscriber. Which means they get a node when they log in, just like the paying members. (Maybe I should make something for free access.. :-lol )When someone that is a paying member talks about how easy it is, I just respect that, because the only experience that matters is your own. :-)The forums have a separate user log-in than the library, so I take it with a grain of salt when someone says they get access.I guess the easiest way to log in would be to buy a membership, but some, like myself, just disagree with the philosophy. No grudge as I enjoy the forums and rarely complain about the way the site is run. And I abide by the rules, as I am a guest there, the same as I am at Avsim.I think Darrell and Jeff do a great job as moderators over there, and you will learn quite a bit from being a member of both forums.I download mainly from the Avsim library simple because it is easier for me, and unbelievably faster, but sometimes you have a file only uploaded to Flightsim.comThere have been times where I have had to hit F5-Enter 157 times (That's my record :-) ) to get in, but that, IMHO, is because of the time I am trying to get files. They have their peak hours there, so I would reccomend if you are not a paying member, schedule your searches at odd times, and most likely you will get in within a few tries. Works for me.I hope this helps,Joe :-wavePS - For the recod, right now is non-peak time and it took me exactly 9 F5-Enters to get in... Well, time to surf their library.. :-) :-)Edit:Ok, I'm done. I just Downloaded the following:A 6E IntruderEA-6B ProwlerNight Textures by Chris Willis :-)New treesDHC6 - OtterLockheed BlackbirdF4-SkyhawkSee, just log in at odd times... :-)End Edit:http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Tom-As you know I also volunteer (read: no benefits, not even preferred login access ;-) ) as a moderator at flightsim.com. I frequent both sites (flightsim and Avsim) probably more than I should. ;-) Anyway, Darrell and I have work hard to keep a handle on bashing of other sites at the Flightsim forums. If people have a problem with a site, we ask them to post it at that site, to give them an opportunity to explain or correct, or we simply remove the post. So, I'm a bit surprised that no one in this thread (especially Robert who was the first to respond), other than Darrell, mentioned posting a question/complaint such as this over at Flightsim. Wouldn't Flightsim.com be in a better position to answer such a question? Your response was more to call out a potential conflict of interest--Darrell being a moderator at Flightsim.If in fact that is a conflict of interest, then Robert Kirkland's position as an Associate Publisher of AVSIM AND Member of PSS seems to walk a very tenuous line between journalistic integrity and outright bias. I'm sure that Robert and Avsim can remain impartial when reviews of PSS products are posted, just like Darrell and I can remain impartial when it comes to answering a flightsim.com related question on an Avsim forum.Tom, you and I have conversed occasionally over the years, starting in the old Project Freeware forum. Speaking merely as a long time participant in these forums, I think it is only fair to direct people who have questions/concerns/complaints regarding other sites or design organizations to take it to their respective forums.I hope I haven't offended, because that was not my intent and I've reread this post a few times to hopefully make sure its clear.[hr color=gray]http://home.earthlink.net/~snyders2000/deb.jpg

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Hi Jeff,I'll have to say that since you and Darrell started helping out, the environment has become less hostile. How would this poster be received if such a question been posted there? I have a feeling that he would have been blown out the water by a "select" few. Perhaps he chose to post it here thinking he would have a safe haven. For some reason questions or comments about Flightsim have not been received very well there. However, his post was not derrogatory (sp?) or inflamatory, but used Flightsim as an example.Brent

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Brent, I certainly respect your opinion from my years of reading your posts and corresponding with you. I also certainly appreciate the kind words. Darrell and I have tried to reel the forums in a bit and I think it is really coming along--although, as you know, it can be an uphill fight at times. :-lol>>How would this poster be received if such a question been posted there? I have a feeling that he would have been blown out the water by a "select" few. Well, being blown out of the water is a tough measure and a bit subjective. :-) There is a huge difference between someone posting a very poignant rebuttal to another's post and someone posting personal attacks, the latter will be quickly removed once an alert is received or we see it ourselves.>>Perhaps he chose to post it here thinking he would have a safe haven. For some reason questions or comments about Flightsim have not been received very well there.Brent, this holds true at both sites. Comments slamming Avsim, posted at Avsim, are not well received by the operators of the site or the dedicated users. There is no difference there. However, the difference lies in comments slamming one site that are posted at another site (by the way, I'm not saying that the original post in this thread was slamming FS, but I'm just making my point since this is the direction the discussion has gone :-)). Darrell and I consistently direct them to post here (and lock the thread) or simply remove the thread entirely and email the poster. Since Darrell and I both frequent both sites, we would love the sites to coexist.>>However, his post was not derrogatory (sp?) or inflamatory, but used Flightsim as an example.Absolutely, correct. I didn't not read his post to be derogatory or inflammatory. However, he did acknowledge that it is not AVSIM related and the subject of his question (financial basis of Flightsim) can only be answered by one person, Nels Anderson. The questions were not general in nature. This only related to flightsim. Nels does answer questions like this.Anyway, Brent, I appreciate the discussion. Considering I don't have a financial interest in either site (flightsim or avsim, yet ;-)), this discussion is really just academic. But for some reason it just seems to strike a cord with me--kind of like talking behind someones back. :-)Take care,[hr color=gray]http://home.earthlink.net/~snyders2000/deb.jpg

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Jeff that is a cheap shot and you know it. What is the difference in my role at AVSIM and PSS and Tim Dickens' role at FSD and Full Throttle or Just Flight's ownership of PC Pilot just to cite two examples. I am a volunteer here at AVSIM the same as you are at Flightsim.com. If I was to respond to a question about AVSIM at Flightsim.com then I would state in my signature my postion at AVSIM and if it was a PSS question I would do the same. That is all Tom was suggesting you do.http://www.avsim.com/pages/robert/kirkland.jpg

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