Hi all. I'm looking for guidance on this VOR/DME approach via the arc (MAGOT iaf)Here's a snipet:The full chart is available here:http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/1001/00782VD17.PDFMy question is: what do I set my course (OBS knob) to if I'm coming from due east to MAGOT? If I'm doing this the simple way (and flying outbound from the VOR), normally what I would do is set NAV1 to the CVO freq 115.40 and figure out the radial, which appears to be 031 from the low altitude chart, in order to navigate to MAGOT. When I'm 16 dme from CVO I would turn 90 degrees to my left (or in the direction of the arc) and turn my OBS 10 degrees to the left. (yes I know with wind and ground speed you'd actually make the turn prior to reaching 16 dme ;) ) But I wondered what in the world do I set my course to if coming from the east, or even the west? Do I just set a 031 course and guestimate when the turn on to the arc will occur?Thanks for any help

Hi all. I'm looking for guidance on this VOR/DME approach via the arc (MAGOT iaf)Here's a snipet:The full chart is available here:http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/1001/00782VD17.PDFMy question is: what do I set my course (OBS knob) to if I'm coming from due east to MAGOT? If I'm doing this the simple way (and flying outbound from the VOR), normally what I would do is set NAV1 to the CVO freq 115.40 and figure out the radial, which appears to be 031 from the low altitude chart, in order to navigate to MAGOT. When I'm 16 dme from CVO I would turn 90 degrees to my left (or in the direction of the arc) and turn my OBS 10 degrees to the left. (yes I know with wind and ground speed you'd actually make the turn prior to reaching 16 dme ;) ) But I wondered what in the world do I set my course to if coming from the east, or even the west? Do I just set a 031 course and guestimate when the turn on to the arc will occur?Thanks for any help

First off, a DME arc is a non-radar procedure. It is used as a way of transitioning an aircraft off of one route onto another without having to have the aircraft overfly a navaid, which may result in an awkward turn or add significant distance to the route. It can also be used outside of an approach procedure for separation purposes. An aircraft not flying on V23 would have a few options (non-radar) to fly to MAGOT. If the aircraft is NOT RNAV equipped, they would have to fly to CVO, fly the 031 radial outbound (basically V23) and then intercept the arc at 16 DME, there is no other practical (and legal, from a controller's standpoint) to navigate to that fix. An RNAV equipped airplane could just fly direct MAGOT from the east, trying to approach it from the west would be a tricky turn.

Once you get to MAGOT, head directly for ADLOW and keep your DME at 16. Dial in the 177 radial of CVO and start your intercept a few degrees early as the OBS start to move to center. Fly the approach as per the profile view.

If the aircraft is NOT RNAV equipped, they would have to fly to CVO, fly the 031 radial outbound (basically V23) and then intercept the arc at 16 DME

That's how I flew it last night. Just wanted to make sure I was doing it correctly. I can fly the arc part with ease, as long as I do it slower than 200 kts...

That's how I flew it last night. Just wanted to make sure I was doing it correctly. I can fly the arc part with ease, as long as I do it slower than 200 kts...

Or if you have dual VOR's you simply set the OBS to the 2 radials of the VOR's and when they center, you are there, no need to go to the VOR first.

Or if you have dual VOR's you simply set the OBS to the 2 radials of the VOR's and when they center, you are there, no need to go to the VOR first.

Here's a question for thought and discussion. Assuming a non-radar environment and a non-RNAV equipped aircraft (/A), how would you determine what course would get you to the intersection and how would you correct your course for effects of wind en route to the intersection? Remember you're flying IFR and have nothing but your instruments (no GPS either!) to determine your position.

Well I only assumed it was a 031 radial from looking at the low altitude chart off sky vector. The other way to do it would be to fly off the EUG vor until you're 22.1 dme from that and then tune the CVO vor and see when you're at 16 dme - then you would read the radial on your NAV1

Well I only assumed it was a 031 radial from looking at the low altitude chart off sky vector. The other way to do it would be to fly off the EUG vor until you're 22.1 dme from that and then tune the CVO vor and see when you're at 16 dme - then you would read the radial on your NAV1

The 031 radial is correct. If I was flying V23, I'd probably have EUG tuned into Nav2, and CVO into nav1, assuming the DME is slaved purely to nav1. If it can be toggled between toggled between both radios, it is probably easier to fly to the EUG355034 and join the arc that way.

Of course I didn't mention - an RMI would help things out too ;)

No doubt that the approach was designed to use MAGOT as a transition off of V23 from the North or South. Approaching from the east, there's no airway... so you have to be going direct somewhere (or on a vector). In that case, when the DME approaches 16, you would just need to center the needle, turn right to the tangential course, and join the arc. There's no rule that says you have to join the arc right at MAGOT... you can intercept northwest or southeast and be perfectly legal (as long as ATC knows what you're doing). However, you would need to be established on the arc inside MAGOT before you start your descent to 3000.

Thanks for all the posts.... now as I understand it the main purpose of an arc is to transistion from a non-radar area of atc coverage to an approach. Where I work we have a few approaches with arcs and I never understood the practical purpose of an arc. I clear pilots for the approach all the time but never think of why they would want to fly one other than practice.Here's an example of one from DLH.... when I checked the low alt chart I noticed the IAF's are on V430.... interestinghttp://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/1001/00125VDT21.PDF

Thanks for all the posts.... now as I understand it the main purpose of an arc is to transistion from a non-radar area of atc coverage to an approach. Where I work we have a few approaches with arcs and I never understood the practical purpose of an arc. I clear pilots for the approach all the time but never think of why they would want to fly one other than practice.

We were taught some of their other uses in OKC during non-radar. Talking to some of the guys in the D side class ahead of me, I'll get to use them a few more times in non-radar here at the center. After that I don't think we'll ever see them again anytime in our training, or working traffic, except for the occasional practice approach.

Here's an example of one from DLH.... when I checked the low alt chart I noticed the IAF's are on V430.... interestinghttp://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/1001/00125VDT21.PDF

We've got one to DYR that has transitions from V140 and V11, yesterday I saw a UH-60 from Ft Campbell fly the arc to the VOR/DME 22 at PAH. Unfortunately with the resolution of center radar there wasn't much to see, the arc would probably be a bit more noticeable on a ARTS/STARS display.

Ahhh, an enroute guy hah!We only get a few handoffs which are non radar in my airspace.... but 99% are good radar handoffs so I've yet to see someone NR shoot an approach.

Ahhh, an enroute guy hah!We only get a few handoffs which are non radar in my airspace.... but 99% are good radar handoffs so I've yet to see someone NR shoot an approach.

We don't really do any non-radar in my sector either. We've got approaches to one airport whose segments are beneath our reliable radar coverage, which necessitates that we block 4000' and below in the area when an approach is in progress since we usually lose them below 3000'. That's about the extent of non-radar separation that we provide on a regular basis, save assigning altitudes that assure separation to IFR departures.