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Authors please take note... Files uploaded by Ferdy to VOLFTP, the site that he is using to host his library, has the following terms for uploads placed there:QUOTEPLEASE BEWARE:All material submitted to VOLFTP by the authors, including software, pages in HTML language, images, may be used by VOLFTP for promotional purposes, CD-ROM/DVD creation with VOLFTP and Mondadori trademarks, without asking for further authorization.The material sent may not be deleted from VOLFTP servers without being replaced with a newer version. VOLFTP publishes software sent within 15 working days by the day of reception of the software and of the author's email containing all required data.The final decision whether to publish a software or not is taken by VOLFTP editorial staff.The software received will NOT be returned in any case.UNQUOTEThe fact of the matter is that by uploading freeware to VOLFTP, Ferdy is putting your files in the position of being published on a CDROM and sold by VOLFTP, and you have absolutely no control, rights or recompense for he having done so.

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I sent Ferdy a letter yesterday, asking him to comply with the wishes of the various freeware authors that have requested him to remove files from "his" library. The fact of the matter is he can't, and the above terms say why.

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Surely VOLFTP have to consider the fact that the files have not been uploaded by their authors ???

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One would think so... but I am not sure that is the case. We are looking into that very question. However, it might do well for authors for them to contact VOLFTP directly and register their complaint (if they have one).

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Tom,I have not got anything out at the moment, but hopefully should have soon (fingers crossed). So I have emailed VOLFTP the question to see what they come back with since it is a concern !!!

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Ferdy's really crossing the line with this one--and I thought his supporting that Spyware program was bad!Yep,the way I read it is that VOL can stick your files on a CD-ROM and sell them whether you like it or not, but..the big word that might have Ferdy's t*t in a wringer is AUTHOR. VOL is assuming that files upload to their servers are by the orignal author,thats quite an assumption to make.Ferdy's not the author of these files,he's just merely trolling FS sites and uploading on his own.I wonder if Tom Miller uploaded his Twin Bonanza to FSplanet??-its right there in the library and probably well on its way to being burned to CD.Some people may have uploaded to FSplanet on their own but I'm wondering if they really know exactly whats going on. BTW,where is the upload button on the site? I didn't see it...David

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There isn't from what I have seen, but in some email from Ferdy that was provided to me, he mentions that some authors DO email him files. He does admit to poaching from "other" sites in the same email.

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Well, three of my files are uploaded there, and I can say, I am completely outraged! While they are only repaints, and nothing compared to someone who made a whole model or panel, I can completely understand the anger everyone is feeling.I sent them an email explaining the files were illegally redistributed without my permission, and demanaded that they be removed within 24 hours.Plus, on the VolFTP site, the top of their page reads: Fly with VOLftpStarting from today, VOLFTP offers you the biggest file collection for Flight Simulator. The file archive consists of 14,000+ files coming from enthusiasts of all the world. It includes airplanes, airports, control panels, nacelles and various scenarios that will allow you to customize Flight Simulator.Bloody outrageous :-fume (them stealing our nacelles and control panels) Thanks, Tom, for bringing this to everyone's attention :-)

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Would be good if you can let us know what happens !!!!(This one was slow to appear - however reply from VOLFTP below)

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(Already posted to this but it vanished)....Just had a response from VOLFTP reads as follows :::::::"We have only an automatic mirror of flight-simulator file collection, please refer to Ferdy Serena ferdy@fsplanet.com to remove files and put in cc us (ftpsw@volftp.mondadori.com) , if he does not remove the files write us and we consider the problem and find together a solution."At least not as black & white as their T's & C's would appear to be (and more promising than the response from Ferdy).....

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I am not a lawyer, but have had numerous dealings with copyright cases in my regular job. I would say that VOLFTP has NO RIGHT on any STOLEN SOFTWARE. And it looks to me that Ferdy is stealing (illegaly copying to) software from freeware authors (and perhaps even shareware authors) and submitting it to VOLFTP.I do not think there is one country in the world - and true, there are some with real funny laws, and lack of laws, as we are finding out these days - that does nit have at least a law on copyrights - acknowledging the unwritten rights by each and every copright owner.I don't know who VOLFTP are, but I am pretty sure THEY know as well as we do ;-)In my Dutch-to-English doctionary that makes VOLFTP a fence.(interesting, 'voler' is french for 'stealing'. Steal through ftp ??? Hmmmm... ;-) ) :-outta Francois :-wave[table border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0][tr][td valign=bottom" align="center]"At home in the wild"[/td][td valign=bottom" align="center][link:avsim.com/alaska/alaska_051.htm|Don's Alaskan Bush Charters]"Beavers Lead the Way"[/td][td valign=bottom" align="center][link:www.avsim.com/vfr_center/mainpages/vfr_flights_main_page.htm]VFR Flight Center]"Looking Good Outside"[/td][/tr][tr][td valign=top" align="center]http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif[/td][td valign="top" align="left" colspan=2]http://www.fssupport.com/images/moose2.gif[/td][tr][/table]________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online![/bemail: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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Looks like VOLFTP might be hanging Ferdy out to dry. Nevertheless, claiming to have an "automatic mirror" does not absolve them of culpability in the unauthorized use and/or sale of authors' property.Interesting this one,Regards,

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I have asked them repeatedly to keep my stuff off there site. Everytime I put something up at AVSIM which is the ONLY place besides my site that I want my FREEWARE work. It always shows up shortly on there site. Not good at all.Frank B^)

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That disclaimer can say whatever they want it to say. The fact is, if somebody uploads freeware software to that site, and that software in turn appears on a commercial CD, the publisher of that CD is violating both the original author's copyright and the freeware license agreement that should have been included with the software. The publisher of the CD could face a hefty lawsuit and criminal charges, regardless of who uploaded the software to them.

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Why can we not copyright our work to Avsim then ?Anniette xxxxxxxxxxx

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Actually, any site that charges for the privilege of logging on is charging monies for the products listed on that site. Flightsim.com is as guilty as fsplanet.com in that regard. More so. Flightsim is basically telling me that if I want to log on, I have to pay them to obtain freeware which isn't their property in the first place. They effectively deny me access unless I pay them. I don't know about the rest of you, but I haven't been able to access their site in months. Fsplanet.com at least allows me access without paying. I don't see the difference in either site with respect to infringment on the author's copyright except that fsplanet is uploading without permission. At least fsplanet.com can be accessed without payment. Which is worse?? Flightsim.com for charging for freeware obtained with permission without giving you an option?? Fsplanet.com for uploading without permission, but at least allowing access to the site and download without having to pay?? If you ask me, Flightsim.com is the biggest offender of individuals copyrights.

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Anniette,anybody's work (freeware, shareware, payware) belongs to him/her self. Anything you make.... YOU have the copyright. Not AVSIM, not FSPlanet, not your government..... just you !I don't think there is any need for AVSIM to be involved.... your rights are sufficiently protected under international copyright law.Amicalement,Francois :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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What a load of biscuits. This subject has been beaten to death. Flightsim.com does not require you to pay to log on. And if you do pay, you are paying for the bandwidth usage and servers. Just like your donations here at AVSIM do.You are at best, just plain wrong.

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I've always been somewhat conflicted, but overall complacent concerning the desire of "publishers" to compile and sell compilation works based on the shareware and freeware thats been made available through their site. Back when CDROM's first started getting popular, this was a routine and very popular practice by BBS's to distribute wholesale collections between major sites and their users. But back then, 28.8k modems were lightning fast (14.4k was quite the luxury to many as well) and compilation works saved a huge amount of time by end-users.When the Web started getting popular and BBS's started fading away (:-(), new shareware/freeware sites like WinFiles started taking their place - as far as file collections go. They too had a similar policy: every four to six months they'd sell compilation CD sets (and eventually DVD's) of all the files linked through their system. Again, for users who had 33k and even the brand new 56k modems, this was a god send.On the one hand, you can think of it as fair since its a symbiotic relationship between authors and publishing sites. Without the authors, the publishing sites wouldn't exist (or at least, wouldn't be near as popular). But without the publishing sites, the authors wouldn't be able to get their works in near as many hands. Because of this, and in the end, I've never minded my freeware works being included and sold - FOR A NOMINAL AND REASONABLE FEE - on compilation sets by sites. Thats why I expressly include such a disclaimer in my licenses: even if I'm not the original upload author to that particular site (another thing I don't mind and expressly allow). As long as they don't try to co-opt the license or copyright of my work simply by the act of uploading or storage on their system, I can happily live with it.However, this instance is different. That "rule" of theirs:"The material sent may not be deleted from VOLFTP servers without being replaced with a newer version."and the other "rule":"may be used by VOLFTP for ... CD-ROM/DVD creation with VOLFTP and Mondadori trademarks"Is completely outrageous and beyond reasonable. It throws their entire site and their ethics into question (let alone any legal questions raised). If they truly "try to" stop authors from requesting their works be removed from their site, or refuse requests for such, I('d) have a HUGE problem with them (if any of my works were actually on their site). And if they think they can pass of others works with their Trademarks, they have another think coming. For the Trademark issue, I don't think thats exactly what they meant, but it can certainly be interpreted that way.An oversight I can understand: even if it was made for greedy reasons. If they don't change the policy almost immediately now that its been brought to light, I'd suggest some strong arm tactics to force the issue however - including any legal movements if that becomes necessary.Thanks for bringing this up Tom. It'll be extremely useful to see their reaction and if they back down on those issues immediately (as they must).I wonder how others feel about their works being included on compilation discs however (aside from the other two issues)? Am I in the minority on this? The majority?Thanks,http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

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Hi Francois,I've been trying to find a web translator for their site (http://volftp.mondadori.com), but for the life of me I can't figure out what language its in! I know, stupid North American... :-)You suggest above its Dutch, but I tried a Dutch translation to English and it remained the same. Can you verify the language and possibly point to a web translator that can handle it? I tried all the languages that BabelFish provides, but none of them worked.Thanks, http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

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Hi Elrond,You could always try hitting the tiny "In English" link towards the lower left hand side !!! :-kewl BTW - I think it is in Itallian !

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LOL! I hope I'm not that dense! Where are you seeing that? I just looked again and still can't see one...EDIT STARTAww shoot... Never mind. The entire left side of the page was being blocked by my firewall. Shew! While I AM dense, at least I'm not THAT dense. :-lolThanks G...EDIT STOP(I also tried babelfish's Itallian conversion and it didn't work... hmmmm)http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

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As a missed point, let me also say that if they stole bandwidth from the likes of AVSIM or other sites to build their collection, this also is wholly outrageous. While I stated I don't mind end-users distributing my work to other sites, I sure as heck don't support sites which steal from others on a mass basis to build their collections!I'm not clear on what you're saying in that regard though, Tom. Is this essentially what they did? http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

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"I wonder how others feel about their works being included on compilation discs however (aside from the other two issues)? Am I in the minority on this? The majority?"I don't know Elrond. I have a lot of feelings on the subject, but the degree of which will depend upon the definition of your term "fair and reasonable compilation fees". I am a former member of ASP, and I know what I paid as a BBS Sysop for so many years... Anyone know what VOLFTP is charging for these?

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