Flight Model Opiniond/Thoughts?

[MMoore0324 1]

C340 TAKEOFF REPORT: TOW 5440; Fuel 96 GAL/ 639 LBS; Flap 0, Trim -4.5. Vr ~95 KIAS; IMC WIND 0000.This was smooth and much easier to control. This makes total sense and I thank you sir for your input. There are a variety of other aircraft that employ nose down trim as SOP (even transport category, but I did not consider that with this aircraft. The recommendations you've provided from RW ops has given me a greater appreciation of this model. Best, Les Parson

Fantastic to hear Les! This is such a fun plane to fly in the sim and in RW. It will eat you up though if you let it! I have about 300 hours RW in the 340 and I am one of the real pilots who certified this model for Carenado and spent many many hours testing for them. I really feel this simulation is good, but it just needs to be flown correctly! Thanks!

[MartinRex007 390]

Hi there,Can you give me some more details about your flight when the airplane behaves with this nose down attitude? What are your power settings? Load config? One thing to remember about the 340 is that from the pilots point of view, she has a long forward sweeping nose. So after you level off, it usually gives you the sensation of a nose down attitude. If your power settings are correct, altimeter is correct, and finally your airplane is within weight limits, you should be flying level. If you are in a high speed cruise, the nose will have a very very slight nose down attitude. You can confirm you are flying level by just taking a look at spot view. If when you look at spot view and the nose is actually pointing down, or something like that could you please post a screen shot from the spot view and also in the VC view please? Thanks! I look forward to hearing back from you!

Thanks for the feedback, here are a couple of posts of a spot view and VC view. Plane loaded with 50% fuel and only the pilot onboard, AP on, and if you notice the AH on the panel shows a nose down attitude , if I climb with the AP at 600 fpm the AH shows level flight? And there is no way to adjust the AH? However the co-pilot AH can be adjusted. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, thanks for your input, appreciate it! Martin

[MMoore0324 1]

Thanks for the feedback, here are a couple of posts of a spot view and VC view. Plane loaded with 50% fuel and only the pilot onboard, AP on, and if you notice the AH on the panel shows a nose down attitude , if I climb with the AP at 600 fpm the AH shows level flight? And there is no way to adjust the AH? However the co-pilot AH can be adjusted. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, thanks for your input, appreciate it! Martin

Hi Martin,Thanks for posting the screen shots! I somehow misunderstood your OP about the attitude indicator. I too show the same on my AI in level flight and I'm sure they guys will fix that in any updates they put out. However, your exterior shot shows that you are flying pretty level. It's hard to tell for 100% sure because of view angles, etc. Also, your AI shows about a -3.5* pitch, and the exterior shot certainly doesn't show that. If you had a -3* pitch at that speed, it would look like the plane was nose diving. lol when I'm flying this airplane, for me personally the view out of the cockpit feels and looks very natural and realistic. Airplanes rarely fly 100% level all the time due to pressure changes, wind, etc. The FDE isn't 100% spot on but it is very very close. FSX still has alot of limitations and some companies, like PMDG, are finding ways bypass these limitations, hence the NGX taking forever. lol I hope that you enjoy flying this aircraft as much as I do. Again, I'm sure the AI issues will be fixed! Thanks!Matt

[bliksimpie 1]

Hi Martin,Thanks for posting the screen shots! I somehow misunderstood your OP about the attitude indicator. I too show the same on my AI in level flight and I'm sure they guys will fix that in any updates they put out. However, your exterior shot shows that you are flying pretty level. It's hard to tell for 100% sure because of view angles, etc. Also, your AI shows about a -3.5* pitch, and the exterior shot certainly doesn't show that. If you had a -3* pitch at that speed, it would look like the plane was nose diving. lol when I'm flying this airplane, for me personally the view out of the cockpit feels and looks very natural and realistic. Airplanes rarely fly 100% level all the time due to pressure changes, wind, etc. The FDE isn't 100% spot on but it is very very close. FSX still has alot of limitations and some companies, like PMDG, are finding ways bypass these limitations, hence the NGX taking forever. lol I hope that you enjoy flying this aircraft as much as I do. Again, I'm sure the AI issues will be fixed! Thanks!Matt

Matt thanks for posting your replies here. Takeoff much better with your recomendations. Always best to hear from those flying RW expertise. MUCH apreciated that u take the time to post to help us plebs like me.

[Les Parson 104]

Fantastic to hear Les! This is such a fun plane to fly in the sim and in RW. It will eat you up though if you let it! I have about 300 hours RW in the 340 and I am one of the real pilots who certified this model for Carenado and spent many many hours testing for them. I really feel this simulation is good, but it just needs to be flown correctly! Thanks!

Thanks Matt. Would you consider writing a C340 tutorial? I think it would answer a great number of questions. On a separate topic, as an avid and long time FSE user, your PNW Air site looks interesting and something I may consider (Texas can be boring). I notice the fleet doesn't include the C340, but that's probably because FSE doesn't either? I also regularly fly the Real Air Duke and Aeroworx B200.Best,LP

[andy1975 13]

Matt,I thank you much for your efforts to tell us how to fly her right, this is more than just interesting for me. Will try to trim forward on takeoff tonight.But can you please tell us the tendency to float that pretty long before touchdown and to be able to do that at about 60 kts like many of us are experiencing? If it is REALY right that way, can you please give us some advice how to do a correct landing without the floating.This really drives me kind of nuts as I don´t land her much different to a Cheyenne, Duke or a C310, don´t know what I am doing wrong on this plane :( .Many thanks for your imput Matt!Best regards,Andreas Kroder

[MartinRex007 390]

Hi Martin,Thanks for posting the screen shots! I somehow misunderstood your OP about the attitude indicator. I too show the same on my AI in level flight and I'm sure they guys will fix that in any updates they put out. However, your exterior shot shows that you are flying pretty level. It's hard to tell for 100% sure because of view angles, etc. Also, your AI shows about a -3.5* pitch, and the exterior shot certainly doesn't show that. If you had a -3* pitch at that speed, it would look like the plane was nose diving. lol when I'm flying this airplane, for me personally the view out of the cockpit feels and looks very natural and realistic. Airplanes rarely fly 100% level all the time due to pressure changes, wind, etc. The FDE isn't 100% spot on but it is very very close. FSX still has alot of limitations and some companies, like PMDG, are finding ways bypass these limitations, hence the NGX taking forever. lol I hope that you enjoy flying this aircraft as much as I do. Again, I'm sure the AI issues will be fixed! Thanks!Matt

Hi Matt, it's a great aircraft and I really enjoy flying her. Your suggestions for flying her has help a lot. Thanks again!!

[MMoore0324 1]

Thanks Matt. Would you consider writing a C340 tutorial? I think it would answer a great number of questions. On a separate topic, as an avid and long time FSE user, your PNW Air site looks interesting and something I may consider (Texas can be boring). I notice the fleet doesn't include the C340, but that's probably because FSE doesn't either? I also regularly fly the Real Air Duke and Aeroworx B200.Best,LP

I think I could probably get a tutorial of some sort together sometime this week. I'll post in this forum if I'm able to. Yeah FSE is great. You should definitely join PNWAir. Will will certainly have 2-4 340's just as soon as it's added to the data base. We also own 2 Duke's, plus lots of other great airframes.

Hi Matt, it's a great aircraft and I really enjoy flying her. Your suggestions for flying her has help a lot. Thanks again!!

Awesome! I'm glad it's helping out! Keeping enjoying the aircraft! :)

[MMoore0324 1]

Matt,I thank you much for your efforts to tell us how to fly her right, this is more than just interesting for me. Will try to trim forward on takeoff tonight.But can you please tell us the tendency to float that pretty long before touchdown and to be able to do that at about 60 kts like many of us are experiencing? If it is REALY right that way, can you please give us some advice how to do a correct landing without the floating.This really drives me kind of nuts as I don´t land her much different to a Cheyenne, Duke or a C310, don´t know what I am doing wrong on this plane :( .Many thanks for your imput Matt!Best regards,Andreas Kroder

Hey Andreas and everyone else who is having some landing problems, There isn't any secret for not floating... it all comes down to flying the airplane. Everything that we do leading up the the last 100-200 feet of our flight will dictate how our landing is. If we are a little sloppy, not flying the speeds, just being lazy with the approach, 9 times out of 10 our landings are not going to be great. Now there are of course a few variables that can effect the outcome of our landings even if we are on top of the airplane, and do everything right. So while you are descending you running your approach and before landing checklist... I"m going to just assume that everything on the checklist is being performed correctly and is all good. So now ATC has us about 30 miles out at around 5000 feet. We will say our airport elevation is 879' MSL. So after some nifty vectoring for the local airshow, ATC puts us 10 miles out to the south of the airport. We want to land on 24 so we will need to set up for a right left downwind for 24. Before turning downwind, lets decelerate to 160 KIAS for our 15* flap extension. ATC has cleared us for the visual so we can deviate our altitude as needed. With the Cessna 340, 310, 414, etc you must remember the basic rules of flying. A) Use pitch to control airspeed; :( Trim the airplane for level flight, OR constant climb/descents by Pitch, Power, Trim. Ok now that we got that out of the way... it's time to reduce the power. Bring the power back to 25" MP and use pitch to get the airplane to 160KIAS. If you need to make small power adjustments to get your speed, that's fine. Notice that I only mention adjusting the power levers. Before we go any further, there are a few things you need to know about the 340's mixture system. The 340 has pressure controlled fuel mixture controls, set it for cruise and leave it alone all the way down. During the approach and landing phase, we are operating at very low power settings so that we can slow this slippery bird down. We don't need the amount of power that full rich mixture will give us. If on short final and we need to go around, it's very easy to increase, prop, mixture, and throttles to climb power. This is the way the real world airplane is flown and should be practiced in the sim as well. Ok so now we have made our right hand turn for our left downwind for runway 24. Power should still be set to 25" MP, 2300RPM, and cruise mixture settings. These settings should give us, in light weather, about 120-135KIAS. Now even though we are below Vfe (maximum flap extension) and Vle (Maxim gear extension) there is no need to lower gear and drop flaps 40 yet because with our power settings we are in level flight, at about 3000 feet, at the correct speeds. The spit style flaps don't give us much lift, they are primarily for drag, so you might be surprised at how late on final we extend them. Lets set up for our base and final legs now. Right before turning base, lets reduce that power to 22" MP and let our speed settle into about 120-125 KiAS. Now that we are on base, it's time to really plan our landing. As we are looking out the left window watching for the airport, traffic, etc. Think about where on the runway you want to land. The 340 can have pretty good STOL performance if we need it. It's a nice sunny day, with mild temps, and light traffic so we shouldn't need to worry about runway contamination or clearing the active quickly for traffic. As we make the turn to final, try to maintain about 120 KiAS by using pitch and slight power adjustments. You will need some power to get you though your turn, so use what you need to keep the plane flying. Ok lets set up this final and get this bird on the ground...In this scenario, turning a 8 mile final at 3000ft, will bring us in just above glide slope. We want to intercept our glide slope at around 120KIAS. So again, use small, smooth power adjustments to maintain 120. As we make the intercept, you should be descending between 300-700 FPM. Now is the point where everything kinda reverses because we now need to use power to control pitch. We need to maintain our 3* glide path to make the runway, but we still have to mind our speeds so power is the answer. We have to remember to make smooth power adjustments. Reducing power too quickly can cause shock cooling which can crack the cylinders, and or engine cases. You shouldn't need to reduce MP below 15" to maintain your speed and glide. Reducing below 15" can cause undue stress to the power plants. So now lets run our before landing check list and make sure our T's are crossed and I's are dotted. I also use a little self help check list that I go over as well. it's GUMPS Gas-Do we have enough gas for the landing and possible go around/diversion?Undercarriage-Is our gear in the correct position? Mixture-Is the mixture system set correctly for landing?Pumps-Fuel pumps on?Safety -Belts secure, proper exterior lights, and NOTAMS? I use this check list in RW and can be used with any aircraft. Ok at about 1500' we will drop our gear. While the gear is dropping you may need a touch of positive trim to stay on glide. You should now need to increase your power a little bit as those large tricycle gear add some drag. So the wheels are down, and we have a good visual of the runway. Pick a spot to land and fly the airplane to that spot!!!! Period! The airplane will get out of hand if you let it fly you instead of you flying it. So you have your landing spot right? Good! Increase RPM to about 2500 and leave it.At about 700 to 500' drop flaps 40 and increase back pressure on the control column slightly. Reduce power to to give you Vref of 105KIAS. Keeping your eye on that landing spot, work the power as needed. The 340 doesn't have much of a flare so don't try to come down nose slightly up. Your nose should be down slightly. Watch your VSI... you should only be descending at about 300-500FPM. Cross the threshold at around 85KIAS and pull the power back. Don't try to flare yet... when you feel that you are about 10' above the deck, level the plane and let the mains settle on to the runway. Between 10' and touch down is when you should pull the nose up slightly to avoid a flat landing. Hit the brakes, clean her up, and taxi to your destination. That's it! Simple right? :) As you can see, there is a lot that goes into flying this airplane. It takes practice. I still have bad landings in the sim with this plane. As you can imagine there are alot of variables that will screw your perfectly planned approach up, so that's why you need to stay so far ahead of this plane. Airplanes float because either you carry to much speed into the landing, or the airplane wasn't set up correctly for that landing, I know some folks have reported floating at around 60KiAS. I was able to recreate that by coming in a little high and trying to flare to much and not picking a landing spot. The 340's stall speed in the landing config is 71 KIAS. So really, at 60 the plane should have stalled out. It was known on release that the landing stall behavior wasn't quite right. But if the approach is flown right, it shouldn't matter if the plane doesn't stall correctly. This situation is just an example and these techniques and procedures should be tailored very minimally to accept the conditions your have, and your landing airport. If you can follow these techniques and can really stay on top of the plane... I think you'll see your landings get better and better. Good luck and happy landings! Feel free to ask if you have any problems or need help with anything specific! Matt

[Les Parson 104]

Hi Matt,Many thanks for this as well aa your offer for the tutorial. Now that only leaves climb, cruise and descent. I'm going to PM you re FSE & PNW Air.

[bushpilot2 0]

Hello allSorry my english is not the best.I have a little Question: How can i open the Baggage Doors and the Doors for Engine?

[yankeeromeo 2]

Hello allSorry my english is not the best.I have a little Question: How can i open the Baggage Doors and the Doors for Engine?

Hey,shift E,-E2 and E3Cheers,

[Guest bstolle]

There isn't any secret for not floating... it all comes down to flying the airplane. Reduce power to to give you Vref of 105KIAS. Cross the threshold at around 85KIAS and pull the power back. Airplanes float because either you carry to much speed into the landing, or the airplane wasn't set up correctly for that landing, I know some folks have reported floating at around 60KiAS. The 340's stall speed in the landing config is 71 KIAS. So really, at 60 the plane should have stalled out. But if the approach is flown right, it shouldn't matter if the plane doesn't stall correctly. Matt

Just a few points concering the floating.You mentioned a Vref of 105kts, but as the stall speed is 71kts Vref should be 71 x 1.3 = 92kts I don't have the POH but 105 seems fast to me. Could you please re-check?>But if the approach is flown right, it shouldn't matter if the plane doesn't stall correctly. I made a few stall test and the stall warning comes on in clean config at an AoA of 7deg and 73kts and with full flaps at 7deg AoA and 63kts (BTW 7deg is too low for a NACA 23018/15) The stall break occurs 2kts below the warning With the actual stall speed Vref is more than 10kts too high which partially explains the floating.A further contributing factor for the floating is the too little flap drag. In clean config the ROD is approx 700-800fpm which seems to be a bit shallow as well but even with gear down and full flaps the ROD doesn't get higher than 1200-1300fpm at blue line. So in its present form, it's not only pilot error that floating occurs ;)BTW, please check your PMs!

[andy1975 13]

Hello dear Matt,many many thanks for your landing-tutorial !!! I cannot say how much it helped to get all the background info! I printed out your big post, just made some t´n´goes with the 340 and my document in hand and none of the landings ended in a floating like I felt always before. Sure I was a bit more gentle in pulling her nose up just before touch down, so I ended most of the times in a near 3 point landing ... just need some more practicing though :-). Touchdown must have been arround 75 kts. :( But the stall speeds realy must be adjusted in the next patch in order to get this complete right. :( Matt, thanks again with your tutorials, especially the LDG-tutorial, it will definately help! ;-)Cheers,Andreas

[bushpilot2 0]

Hey,shift E,-E2 and E3Cheers,

The doors do not open. shift+E+2 and shift+E+3 right ?Only the main exit opens with shift+E.Where i can read this?Edit: Oh now it works, first shift+E than only 2 or 3Thanks