just my two cents...

[Guest]

I agree with you Bob.The premise in the original post is clearly flawed as anyone with basic debating training would recognize!

[Guest]

Tero writes,"There are many humanitarian treaties that the US has not ratified, and the US has single-handedly executed tens of thousands of civilians alone in the middle east, in the name of military actions.My God, people, take your head off your a*se and READ the FACTS."Could you please post the facts? What treaties are you refering too? Where were the "thousands" of civilians Killed in the Middle East?If your talking about Iraqi's, Gee maybe ask Saddam why he invaded Kuwait? Ask him why he didn't leave Kuwait when we just asked him? Ask him why he snubbed his nose at us when we told him we would use force if he didn't leave Kuwait? We gave the Iraq government plenty of opportunity to leave without the U.S. firing one single weapon. He chose to stay and hurt innocent people in Kuwait. Ask Saddam why Atta was in Iraq visiting the palace before he left for the USA to fly an airliner into the WTC on 9/11/01? Ask Saddam to stop manufacturing weapons of mass destruction that he used on his own people (the Kurds) in the mid 90's and could use on the Saudi's and any other country in the region?It's amazing how people from countries that don't have freedom of speach think that any propaganda that came down the pike is the truth. :-rollThe only mistake I feel our government makes is helping people from these countries with aid when they suffer a natural disaster or destruction from a war or terrorism. Why do we keep helping people like you Tero? You never appreciate it! Jeff

[Guest emergency_pants]

I feel that we are all a victim of some form of propoganda (I think that is a suitable description of the current popular media at this time) or other. The initial poster is a typical example... as are some opinions noted here. However, opinions are personal and I respect them all wholeheartedly. Here and elsewhere. I may not agree, but I won't put anyone down for their beliefs. Think from the heart and ask yourself what is right. Take away preconceptions and bias. Then ask yourself objectively what you think is an ideal solution. Believe that with all your strength and work for it. Ignore the propoganda.My personal view, from the perspective I mentioned above, is that there is a long, long, long way to go with voices before the UN draws it's weapons. And when I say UN, I mean UN: The WORLD!!! I don't see that right now... it's time to calm down. It's a time to listen.Simon.

[Guest]

Infamatory yes, but some truthful points.I hope for one thing, that the American administration takes a deep look inside at it'self and reconsiders it's Foreign Policy.There is no doubt the U.S. has supported the groups now labelled as terrorist's. There is no doubt, the U.S. has turned a blind eye to fund raising in the U.S. for terrorist activities. There is no doubt the U.S. has achieved a great deal, as there is no doubt the U.S. has supported aid when it's been needed.History says the U.S. is slightly over 200 years old, I think America was born 12 months and one day ago. Welcome to the real world America.Some will consider this bashing the U.S. I'm not, the statments above show good and bad. Your Presidents speech today was Statesman like and he put some very good factual points across. His "To assume its good faith is to bet on the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble, and this is a risk we must not take." A powerful message not just to the U.N. (whom I thought he made concessions to) but to everybody the world over. We'll have to wait and see what happens next.George

[Guest B1900 Mech]

One thing that confuses me, Is how Is America going to set the moral high ground when VP Cheney's energy services conglomerate Halliburton INC sold oil company equipment to Sadam Husain and Iraq? After the war ended? Even when the UN decided that medical supplys were off limits because of their possable "dual use"?

[Sonar5 3]

Facts, proof, and evidence please. Or it is nothing but hyperbole, conjecture, and hypocrisy.Your integrity b1900, your choice... Put up or shut up.Regards,Joe :-) http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

[Guest Fortress]

I would only say that to include film titles in any serious intercourse shows outstanding ignorance. The US have absolutely zero credibility when it comes to producing films that purport to protray significant historic events. Truth, it seems, is expendable. Was the Pearl Habour (sic) Habor attack truly a surprise? I'm not sure. What better way of convincing an otherwise anti-war populous to back an involvment in WWII than for the "enemy" to attack a US base... British intelligence knew - for a fact - that the attack was coming, why didn't the US? Maybe the Whitehouse did - and chose to do nothing, knowing that the attack would sway the citizens (read: voter) to back involvment in the war.Despite the fact the I am English, I have a great empathy with the US and its citizens; the terrorist attack of 9/11 is unparalled (and yes, I can appreciate numbers of casualties/fatalities compared with certain other more notable world conflicts & historic events, thank you). The attack was undoubtedly cowardly and many many good people who led everyday lives, wishing harm to no-one, died. The graphic at the start of this post includes many truths, but it does not place things in their correct perspective. Death is an almost unavoidable certainty of violent conflict, and to portray the actions of any one country acting out of that conflict as right/wrong is to look through the eyes of the simpleton.Paul

http://www.strontiumdog.plus.com/Fortress.gifVoted Best Virtual Airline of 2002 and Best CEO of 2002 by participants in the BIG VA Vote organized by FSPILOT.comVANF "Best" New Virtual Airline AwardOfficially licenced by British Airways plc for use of name and logohttp://www.strontiumdog.plus.com/saint_georgex1.gif

[Guest B1900 Mech]

As I said before do your oun research. I am a Airline Mechanic with plenty of integrity. If you like you can visit me at Colgan Air Hanger #2 Hyannis Massachusetts and we can discuss this face to face if you have the gutts. My name is James Driscoll, I work Dayshift.

[Guest]

Jim, Hence the reason to look at foreign policy. I see lots of attacks on Charlies pic. But nobody picks up on the children of Iraq deaths quoted was from Unicef and the Red Cross. The other poster (who If he's all there, I dont want to be) I can only imagine to be a very lonely person who thinks by attacking will give him somebody to "talk" to.I doubt very much if your very generous offer of meeting will be taken up. I saw another post which asked the question, if you were to be invited to my house, how would you spend the evening, talking or passing messages with spurious hyperlinks or saying your a joke, so on and other personal insults ? I guess when his nose has been bloodied, thats all the proof and facts you would need ?Some people make life hard work.George

[LawnDart 19]

How about this:How about we just pull out of the Middle East completely... lift all of the sanctions, and go home?I'd be very interested to see how the world reacts then... "Umm... uh... we were Kidding! Wait! He has a bomb!"Like it or not, War is the only language those corrupt leaders like Saddam seem to understand..But we should pull out.. and let the entire Middle East self-destruct on it's own. Either we bomb it or they do... either way it's going to happen.

[Guest Fortress]

>let the entire Middle East self-destruct on it's ownGot to agree with Ray here.. the problem is that when they self-destruct it's likely they're gonna take some other poor souls with them. Paul

http://www.strontiumdog.plus.com/Fortress.gifVoted Best Virtual Airline of 2002 and Best CEO of 2002 by participants in the BIG VA Vote organized by FSPILOT.comVANF "Best" New Virtual Airline AwardOfficially licenced by British Airways plc for use of name and logohttp://www.strontiumdog.plus.com/saint_georgex1.gif

[Guest B1900 Mech]

As hard as this wil be for me :) I will no longer partake in these discussions, as they draw to much negative energy, and I have enough to worry about at work. I have to remember why I came to these forums In the first place, TO HAVE FUN,AND RELAX !!! :)

[Guest]

Jim, Sad to see you say that, I hope it's not for what I wrote ? George

[Guest B1900 Mech]

No George, only flight sim related topics! I have a lot to contribute,as I am attending a Saab 340B systems course on the 23rd in Manassas Va.!

[Sonar5 3]

James,What you have just done is told everyone here that you are a hypocrite.I do my own research. You prove your theory. You are the one that stated it.Waaaaaaaa, I'm leaving because someone called me out.Everything I write here is FACT, get over it James. You have all this proof, put your mouth out there to work. Call PSMNBC, The Communist News Network, Fox, or better yet, call your Representatives, your local newspaper. At least I stand up for my causes. Do You?But don't come on here, make allegations that are unsubstantiated by fact, and expect someone else to do your work.You are pathetic.You state you are leaving before I even responded after you posted a couple times..Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....................Well, My integrity is in tact.... IS YOURS?Of course you won't respond because you left, huh..... We'll see.Regards,Joe.Oshkosh Pictures From 2001 (Part 1) 78 Pics in Frames with 1mb in ThumbnailsHigh speed connection Recommended:http://home.attbi.com/~flypics1/FrameSet.htm.Oshkosh Pictures From 2001 (Part 2) 106 Pics in Frames with 1.5mb in ThumbnailsHigh speed connection recommended:http://home.attbi.com/~flypics2/FrameSet.htm.Picture Gallery of My Flight in a 1945 SNJ-6 on June 1st, 2002Joliet, Illinoishttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/FrameSet.htm.http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif