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just my two cents...

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Well, let's see... how best to address this?Try this on, checkpointcharlie: Opinions are like backsides. Everybody has one and some of them really stink.There is no country in the world that is perfect. But to blame the worlds' woes on the U.S. is, well... absurd.

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well i think it is really sad of what happened in the state, i dont commend what the terrorist did,however it would be good if the media put things into perspective, there have been millions of people killed - innocent lives lost - throughout history,i.e hiroshima and nagaski, innocent lives lost from a american bomb,millions affectedplease America put things into perspective!

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"i.e hiroshima and nagaski, innocent lives lost from a american bomb,millions affectedplease America put things into perspective!"Would that be your perspective, or a rational one?"however it would be good if the media put things into perspective, there have been millions of people killed - innocent lives lost - throughout history,"And that calamity is entirely the fault of the U.S.? Any intelligent person knows that any form of media cannot be counted upon to produce an unbiased perspective. That responsibility falls to each of us. What media have you been following, and when will you gain a balanced perspective?

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Yes, checkpoint, lives were lost at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, maybe 100,000 of them. It put an end to a war started by two countries that killed upwards of 10 million people. But that doesn't count if we're bashing the United States.After all, they were only Jews, Chinese and assorted other subhumans.

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Hiroshima and Nagasaki ????? Lets see who were the ones who bombed Pearl Harbor?I disagree with your perspective sir. All of your points are missing one key word. All of the United States military actions have been RETALIATIONS to someone elses aggressions except for our Civil War. In all cases somebody started killing innocent people i.e. a really bad dude, Saddam, Ho Chi Mihn, Osama, ect. What other way would you have suggested to stop them sir?GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jeff

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One wonders how much you know.Are you intimately aware of what the ##### did to the Jews and others in WWII? Have you seen the documentaries? Even the film "Schindler's List" is well worth seeing to get some idea of what happened there. So you can display a silly misspelled graphic lamenting the massive bombing of German cities and the loss of life during the 1943 through 1945 period, but without the wider context it's just stupid isn't it?Are you aware of what the Japanese did to the Chinese in WWII? Look up the Rape of Nanking some time. It was horrific.The Japanese were simply fanatical and were not going to surrender despite all the reverses they suffered. It was estimated that one million US servicemen could have lost their lives in an invasion of Japan to bring the war to an end. But instead, the difficult decision was made to use atomic weapons to bring about the end more quickly. And still several days passed after the first weapon was dropped; they just wouldn't give in.But after the war the US helped both Japan and Europe get back on their feet. You've heard of the Marshall Plan? Some will point out there was an element of self-interest for the US in that case--but so what, it helped them.Who goes to war with a country and then helps to rebuild it? The US. The US is a very benign presence in this world; God knows where we'd be without them. Did you see the smiles in Kabul after the US evicted the Taliban? No more public execution of women in the soccer stadium there for doing next to nothing. Why, men could even shave.Then we could talk about the "God bless America" signs put out in Grenada and Panama after the US had evicted the nuts running those places. And we could talk about the exodus of Cubans and Vietnamese from countries that are still being run by communists. Fidel has ruined Cuba. He has a nice place to live though.Look at Korea. In the South there's prosperity; they just co-hosted the world's biggest sporting event, and to considerable acclaim from what I read. In the North there's starvation. And where's the line? It was a line the US helped to draw to bring that conflict to a close.Iraqi children are suffering? Why would you blame the US? Power in that place is currently in the hands of a brutal madman who invaded Kuwait, threatened Saudi Arabia, sent missiles flying into Israel, and torched scores of oilfields.I don't expect any of this will have an impact on you given that ridiculous (ultra-left?) graphic you posted, but others might be interested to read it. Maybe I can agree with you on one thing though: If at all possible it makes more sense to take out the leadership of brutal and aggressive regimes rather than tens or hundreds of thousands of the people who fight on their behalf. Several attempts were made on a really bad dude's life by his own officers during WWII, but of course he survived until the bunker. And now the US has changed its own rules to allow foreign leaderships to be targeted. But look what it took to get that changed.The best solution in Iraq would be for someone there to take out Saddam Hussein. Knowing that the place is going to suffer another destruction might be enough to make it happen too. But if it comes to destroying the place again to prevent that madman from launching nuclear weapons at Isreal or anywhere else, then that's going to happen I'm afraid. And hopefully you, and the UN Secretary General, and the Euros who keep referring to the US as a "cowboy," will make an effort to grasp the fact that it's done at US expense to prevent the use of nuclear weapons. And to make the world safer. Some of us non-Americans are actually grateful for that.

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With all due respect...Your message just goes to show how bad case of corridor-vision some of you americans have, when it comes to military actions and US' own shortcomings.The picture in the first post only tries to make one THINK of the RELATIVITY of the 911 attacks. Sure, it's horrible, no one denies that. But you HAVE TO think bigger than that.There are many humanitarian treaties that the US has not ratified, and the US has single-handedly executed tens of thousands of civilians alone in the middle east, in the name of military actions.My God, people, take your head off your a*se and READ the FACTS.Terops. I know that many people see US as purely evil, which I do not agree with, but I truly hope that, in the name of historical justice, all things should be considered when evaluating US' beningness. Simple, really.

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Tero,Speaking as a citizen of the world, not as an American, I saw the cartoon in the first post as nothing more than blatant propaganda blaming one country for the woes and horrors of the past half century. It was a perfect example of the lack of perspective the poster blames America of having. In a word, it was hypocritical. And the original poster's subsequent effort to portray the use of nuclear weapons to end World War II as murdering innocent civilians was nothing short of contemptable. A war that easily would have extracted millions more of innocent victims before a Japenese capitulaion was brought to a swift conclusion.Finally I'd like to address your claim that "the US has single-handedly executed tens of thousands of civilians alone in the middle east, in the name of military actions." If you would be so kind as to present evidence of such action, I and a majority of Americans would gladly stand with you in calling for the prosecution, in an international court of justice, of any and all American leadership responsible for said acts. All we need is irrefutable proof (you see, most Americans are reluctant to prosecute anybody without strong evidence. We like to make sure.).Regards,

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hmmm... :-rollI agree with the other replies, the actions of the US were to stop wars or to stop wars/killings etc. The US does not go in with the idea to kill civilians, they do not go in and bomb with the intention to kill as many civilians a spossible like the Palestinian Suicide bombers and the low-life terrorists that struck on 9/11. The US never took a plane full of civilians and flew it into buildings full of civilians. These terrorists are too scared to fight man to man, they have to attack civilians like cowards and they use themselves as as a trigger for whatever weapon they have....pfff and they say that they will go to heaven/paradise after completing their mission. :-rollEven as a non-american I stand behind them 100%. Yes USA does interfere with a lot of countries but they only do it with good intentions so stop whatever is happening. When a nation is in disaster who is the first country (usualy) to offer help? Who is the first country to send rescuers or equipment after a major disaster? I saw some people reffer to USA as the Policaman of the world...I preffer to see them as the babysitter of the world. I am not saying that all nations need baby-sitting but the USA does help whenever help is needed.I would be proud to ba an American at any time!OK...my fustration is over!Mike

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You are a joke.You don't even have the facts correct, and the FALSE things you list make you a hypocrite.You try to link Hiroshima and Vietnam to what is going on in Iraq.That is weak attempt since you have no other debating techniques to use.It is a copout.When you retract your false and untrue comments, then maybe we can have a discussion. If you want to debate Vietnam or Hiroshima, starta another thread.In other words, start living in the reality of the present.Regards,JoePS - I await your apology and retraction for your misstatements. If you have any integrity, that is. Up to You, Charlie..Oshkosh Pictures From 2001 (Part 1) 78 Pics in Frames with 1mb in ThumbnailsHigh speed connection Recommended:http://home.attbi.com/~flypics1/FrameSet.htm.Oshkosh Pictures From 2001 (Part 2) 106 Pics in Frames with 1.5mb in ThumbnailsHigh speed connection recommended:http://home.attbi.com/~flypics2/FrameSet.htm.Picture Gallery of My Flight in a 1945 SNJ-6 on June 1st, 2002Joliet, Illinoishttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/FrameSet.htm.http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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"i.e hiroshima and nagaski, innocent lives lost from a american bomb,..."of course, that was in a war started because of a sneak attack by Japan against the U.S.Had the U.S. not acted, hundreds of thousands of more Americans and countless japanese would have been lost in the enusing fighting.Sherman KaplanHighland Park IL

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Checkpointcharlie,What country are you from? Do you have first name or handle? Are you a young person? That information would help in understanding your perspective. Without the above information, an unsigned post accompanied by unbalance statements which are unencumbered by historical fact is really sort of gutless. Plus your timing (9/11) sort of stinks. Why do US bashers assume that Americans have no clue or perspective relative to our role in history? Most are quite aware of it. The good, the bad and the ugly. On balance we feel we have done a good job. Besides, most of the free world has been content to have the US and Britain do the heavy lifting. I am tired of the bashing. As far as I am concerned it is time for the US to fold up the umbrella that has protected the free world for the last 40 years. We need to step aside and allow reasonable leaders in Europe, Africa and Asia to work out there differences. Future leaders with role models such as Slobodan Milosovich, Adolf a really bad dude, Mussolini, OBL, Sadam Hussein and Mula Omar. Have a ball. BobP Philadelphia, USAOld dude

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Yep, Bob, I too at times feel like throwing my hands up and just let them dig deeper and deeper holes for each other. But then I remind myself that the free world will still foot the bill in the end anyway. So I want a say in what happens half way around the world. Because one way or another the actions of a few selfish, despotic, cowards will effect you and I. That's just the way it is in today's world.

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I agree with you Bob.The premise in the original post is clearly flawed as anyone with basic debating training would recognize!

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Tero writes,"There are many humanitarian treaties that the US has not ratified, and the US has single-handedly executed tens of thousands of civilians alone in the middle east, in the name of military actions.My God, people, take your head off your a*se and READ the FACTS."Could you please post the facts? What treaties are you refering too? Where were the "thousands" of civilians Killed in the Middle East?If your talking about Iraqi's, Gee maybe ask Saddam why he invaded Kuwait? Ask him why he didn't leave Kuwait when we just asked him? Ask him why he snubbed his nose at us when we told him we would use force if he didn't leave Kuwait? We gave the Iraq government plenty of opportunity to leave without the U.S. firing one single weapon. He chose to stay and hurt innocent people in Kuwait. Ask Saddam why Atta was in Iraq visiting the palace before he left for the USA to fly an airliner into the WTC on 9/11/01? Ask Saddam to stop manufacturing weapons of mass destruction that he used on his own people (the Kurds) in the mid 90's and could use on the Saudi's and any other country in the region?It's amazing how people from countries that don't have freedom of speach think that any propaganda that came down the pike is the truth. :-rollThe only mistake I feel our government makes is helping people from these countries with aid when they suffer a natural disaster or destruction from a war or terrorism. Why do we keep helping people like you Tero? You never appreciate it! Jeff

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I feel that we are all a victim of some form of propoganda (I think that is a suitable description of the current popular media at this time) or other. The initial poster is a typical example... as are some opinions noted here. However, opinions are personal and I respect them all wholeheartedly. Here and elsewhere. I may not agree, but I won't put anyone down for their beliefs. Think from the heart and ask yourself what is right. Take away preconceptions and bias. Then ask yourself objectively what you think is an ideal solution. Believe that with all your strength and work for it. Ignore the propoganda.My personal view, from the perspective I mentioned above, is that there is a long, long, long way to go with voices before the UN draws it's weapons. And when I say UN, I mean UN: The WORLD!!! I don't see that right now... it's time to calm down. It's a time to listen.Simon.

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Infamatory yes, but some truthful points.I hope for one thing, that the American administration takes a deep look inside at it'self and reconsiders it's Foreign Policy.There is no doubt the U.S. has supported the groups now labelled as terrorist's. There is no doubt, the U.S. has turned a blind eye to fund raising in the U.S. for terrorist activities. There is no doubt the U.S. has achieved a great deal, as there is no doubt the U.S. has supported aid when it's been needed.History says the U.S. is slightly over 200 years old, I think America was born 12 months and one day ago. Welcome to the real world America.Some will consider this bashing the U.S. I'm not, the statments above show good and bad. Your Presidents speech today was Statesman like and he put some very good factual points across. His "To assume its good faith is to bet on the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble, and this is a risk we must not take." A powerful message not just to the U.N. (whom I thought he made concessions to) but to everybody the world over. We'll have to wait and see what happens next.George

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One thing that confuses me, Is how Is America going to set the moral high ground when VP Cheney's energy services conglomerate Halliburton INC sold oil company equipment to Sadam Husain and Iraq? After the war ended? Even when the UN decided that medical supplys were off limits because of their possable "dual use"?

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I would only say that to include film titles in any serious intercourse shows outstanding ignorance. The US have absolutely zero credibility when it comes to producing films that purport to protray significant historic events. Truth, it seems, is expendable. Was the Pearl Habour (sic) Habor attack truly a surprise? I'm not sure. What better way of convincing an otherwise anti-war populous to back an involvment in WWII than for the "enemy" to attack a US base... British intelligence knew - for a fact - that the attack was coming, why didn't the US? Maybe the Whitehouse did - and chose to do nothing, knowing that the attack would sway the citizens (read: voter) to back involvment in the war.Despite the fact the I am English, I have a great empathy with the US and its citizens; the terrorist attack of 9/11 is unparalled (and yes, I can appreciate numbers of casualties/fatalities compared with certain other more notable world conflicts & historic events, thank you). The attack was undoubtedly cowardly and many many good people who led everyday lives, wishing harm to no-one, died. The graphic at the start of this post includes many truths, but it does not place things in their correct perspective. Death is an almost unavoidable certainty of violent conflict, and to portray the actions of any one country acting out of that conflict as right/wrong is to look through the eyes of the simpleton.Paul

http://www.strontiumdog.plus.com/Fortress.gifVoted Best Virtual Airline of 2002 and Best CEO of 2002 by participants in the BIG VA Vote organized by FSPILOT.comVANF "Best" New Virtual Airline AwardOfficially licenced by British Airways plc for use of name and logohttp://www.strontiumdog.plus.com/saint_georgex1.gif

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As I said before do your oun research. I am a Airline Mechanic with plenty of integrity. If you like you can visit me at Colgan Air Hanger #2 Hyannis Massachusetts and we can discuss this face to face if you have the gutts. My name is James Driscoll, I work Dayshift.

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Jim, Hence the reason to look at foreign policy. I see lots of attacks on Charlies pic. But nobody picks up on the children of Iraq deaths quoted was from Unicef and the Red Cross. The other poster (who If he's all there, I dont want to be) I can only imagine to be a very lonely person who thinks by attacking will give him somebody to "talk" to.I doubt very much if your very generous offer of meeting will be taken up. I saw another post which asked the question, if you were to be invited to my house, how would you spend the evening, talking or passing messages with spurious hyperlinks or saying your a joke, so on and other personal insults ? I guess when his nose has been bloodied, thats all the proof and facts you would need ?Some people make life hard work.George

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How about this:How about we just pull out of the Middle East completely... lift all of the sanctions, and go home?I'd be very interested to see how the world reacts then... "Umm... uh... we were Kidding! Wait! He has a bomb!"Like it or not, War is the only language those corrupt leaders like Saddam seem to understand..But we should pull out.. and let the entire Middle East self-destruct on it's own. Either we bomb it or they do... either way it's going to happen.

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