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Kosta

New computer on the way

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I managed to sell my current machine, so I am getting a SB system.Processor:i5-2500k or i7-2600k?- I'm mostly gaming, usually windows stuff, LOTS of unpacking jobs (rar, zip...), some little video encoding/decoding and lots of music stuff (Cubase, audio samples and audio effects...)- I read on some forums mora cache and SMT doesn't bring anything currently in games - how about later? do we know what future brings? I dont want to upgrade in a year again! last upgrade was exactly a year ago...Motherboard:ASUS (want nothing else, I trust Asus...)P8P67 normal or Deluxe, or something else?- I have a standard ATX case with the PSU up, but thinking about changing to the one with the PSU down... since I have watercooling, not really lots of difference, since my aircooling consists of 1 case fan and the PSU fan- not gonna be getting a crossfire or SLI - one GTX 580 is expensive enough - MAYBE if Flight supports SLI, with the nextgen computer or this one, but hey, noone knows whats coming- I see very little difference between boards, only number of connectors (I have two USB hubs on the table, so...), there is external SATA on the deluxe, but nothing important about that since I have USB3 ext. disk- only important is enough internal SATA connectors since I have 1x DVD, 1x hot swap SATA and 4 HDDs in the system. so it must be at least 6 sata- and I need at least 2 PCI slots which should be accessible if dual slot card is inRAM:- 8GB, CL9, 1600 at least? i saw some performance comparisons, doesn't really make sense to buy faster, no realy world difference?GPU:- easy, GTX580 - the question is, cheapest, point of view, or get eVGA which is branded known quality? but way more expensive.Thoughts?

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I managed to sell my current machine, so I am getting a SB system.Processor:i5-2500k or i7-2600k?- I'm mostly gaming, usually windows stuff, LOTS of unpacking jobs (rar, zip...), some little video encoding/decoding and lots of music stuff (Cubase, audio samples and audio effects...)- I read on some forums mora cache and SMT doesn't bring anything currently in games - how about later? do we know what future brings? I dont want to upgrade in a year again! last upgrade was exactly a year ago...Motherboard:ASUS (want nothing else, I trust Asus...)P8P67 normal or Deluxe, or something else?- I have a standard ATX case with the PSU up, but thinking about changing to the one with the PSU down... since I have watercooling, not really lots of difference, since my aircooling consists of 1 case fan and the PSU fan- not gonna be getting a crossfire or SLI - one GTX 580 is expensive enough - MAYBE if Flight supports SLI, with the nextgen computer or this one, but hey, noone knows whats coming- I see very little difference between boards, only number of connectors (I have two USB hubs on the table, so...), there is external SATA on the deluxe, but nothing important about that since I have USB3 ext. disk- only important is enough internal SATA connectors since I have 1x DVD, 1x hot swap SATA and 4 HDDs in the system. so it must be at least 6 sata- and I need at least 2 PCI slots which should be accessible if dual slot card is inRAM:- 8GB, CL9, 1600 at least? i saw some performance comparisons, doesn't really make sense to buy faster, no realy world difference?GPU:- easy, GTX580 - the question is, cheapest, point of view, or get eVGA which is branded known quality? but way more expensive.Thoughts?
Actually you'll be happy with any of the offerings with the 580. Asus is the best looking, but Zotac has had excellent customer service in my experience. PNY is a viable option as well and the cool thing about this company is, I can pick up their brand at Best Buy. I've managed to stay away from EVGA because of their steeper pricing and customer support issues two of my friends have had (Both with motherboards).In a nutshell, get the one you like the look and price of the most. I say this but I've never owned two different company's offerings of the same reference card, so I'm giving advice based on my opinion.

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Actually you'll be happy with any of the offerings with the 580. Asus is the best looking, but Zotac has had excellent customer service in my experience. PNY is a viable option as well and the cool thing about this company is, I can pick up their brand at Best Buy. I've managed to stay away from EVGA because of their steeper pricing and customer support issues two of my friends have had (Both with motherboards).In a nutshell, get the one you like the look and price of the most. I say this but I've never owned two different company's offerings of the same reference card, so I'm giving advice based on my opinion.
I don't care about looks, and I care about support: EVGA was supposed to have a really good support, they even support overclocking and removing of the cooler, which is kinda important for me, since I do both (watercooling and OC). Price is also important since I am on a very tight budget. I looked at Gainward now and EVGA... Gainward is cheapest at one online computer store, prices of Point of View went up.But thanks for the info about EVGA support.Another questions:CMX8GX3M2A2000C9orCMZ8GX3M2A1866C9First is faster, but less cooling options, 2nd is bit slower, but better cooler on the RAM. I have only one case fan as already mentioned. Price difference is 20€, 2000mhz is 122, vengeance is 102.

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Word Not Allowed,Of those two sets, get the first one. I have the same set and I'm willing to bet you can overclock it to 2133. Otherwise you will have to run it at 1866, which I'm currently doing at 1.56v and it will probably do lower (I haven't tried but I will if you want me to). They just dropped the price on it from $179.99. Cooling fins are usually unnecessary on memory. I agree that memory speed doesn't make a huge difference, but if the cost of buying fast memory isn't that much more, by all means do it!As for CPU - get the 2500K. Seriously, I always have HT disabled on my 2600K so it was kind of pointless. It still encodes video like nobody's business! I doubt the extra cache makes a $100 difference. The only other thing to consider is whether or not the 2600K processors overclock any better than the 2500K processors. I haven't seen any definitive proof that they do, however. Save the money and put it towards the Deluxe board or a nice new case to fit all your new hardware.

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Completely agree with Corey. For a mobo, I would pick a P8P67 or a P8P67 PRO if you plan on going SLI someday. I think the EVO, DELUXE and SABERTOOTH don't have anything to offer beyond that. Just aesthetics and useless extra phases. The MAXIMUS EXTREME is for TRI-SLI setups

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Word Not Allowed,Of those two sets, get the first one. I have the same set and I'm willing to bet you can overclock it to 2133. Otherwise you will have to run it at 1866, which I'm currently doing at 1.56v and it will probably do lower (I haven't tried but I will if you want me to). They just dropped the price on it from $179.99. Cooling fins are usually unnecessary on memory. I agree that memory speed doesn't make a huge difference, but if the cost of buying fast memory isn't that much more, by all means do it!As for CPU - get the 2500K. Seriously, I always have HT disabled on my 2600K so it was kind of pointless. It still encodes video like nobody's business! I doubt the extra cache makes a $100 difference. The only other thing to consider is whether or not the 2600K processors overclock any better than the 2500K processors. I haven't seen any definitive proof that they do, however. Save the money and put it towards the Deluxe board or a nice new case to fit all your new hardware.
Thanks for your input. I have always been one of those guys to buy best and greatest, but have been thinking of going less way, since it seems the price really gets way steeper the more you want from the upper end, which performance doesn't really go up much. It's gonna take some serious talking to myself to get me to buy 2500k... LOL.gifBut seriously... those arguments coming from both guys having 2600K :biggrin:Oh and btw... got my super-case with already mounted watercooling which is a long-time-keeper and its gonna stay here for a longer time.

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And for GPU, I would go with whatever has the highest factory overclock so you don't have to worry as much about overclocking it yourself. I've never had much luck overclocking GPUs.

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Completely agree with Corey. For a mobo, I would pick a P8P67 or a P8P67 PRO if you plan on going SLI someday. I think the EVO, DELUXE and SABERTOOTH don't have anything to offer beyond that. Just aesthetics and useless extra phases. The MAXIMUS EXTREME is for TRI-SLI setups
Thanks. I have been looking the Pro version, since SLI is a possible option, but those extras... who needs them.
And for GPU, I would go with whatever has the highest factory overclock so you don't have to worry as much about overclocking it yourself. I've never had much luck overclocking GPUs.
Seriously, me also not really. I have 8800GT which I OCed to SSC, and saw no real performance gain back then. But who knows what's gonna happen with GTX580...I was even thinking about MSI Hydrocopper, which is WAY cheaper than EVGA FTW Hydro.

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I'm curious to know what benefit you get from the 580 over the 570. I understand wanting the best, but It's a whole $150 more!

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I'm curious to know what benefit you get from the 580 over the 570. I understand wanting the best, but It's a whole $150 more!
Well, how should we know a compare to 570? I know its much... with CPU, I kinda get it. On my 920, I have HT also off, so...Only thing putting me off of 2500K is as you say: OC potential, the only reason I am getting a SB is to get it to 5Ghz. I have requirements, really good Swiftech watercooling (Apogee XT I think...).But with the GPU, is rather different: I learned through history that with the GPU it's often quite linear. And don't forget one thing: I love high IQ (AA/AF).

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Processor - i5-2500KNumber of Cores - 4Number of Threads - 4Clock Speed - 3.3 GHzMax Turbo Frequency - 3.7 GHzIntel® Smart Cache - 6 MBBus/Core Ratio - 33Instruction Set - 64-bitInstruction Set Extensions - SSE4.1/4.2, AVXLithography - 32 nmMax TDP - 95 WProcessor Number - i7-2600KNumber of Cores - 4Number of Threads - 8Clock Speed - 3.4 GHzMax Turbo Frequency - 3.8 GHzIntel® Smart Cache - 8 MBBus/Core Ratio - 34Instruction Set - 64-bitInstruction Set Extensions - SSE4.1/4.2, AVXLithography - 32 nmMax TDP - 95 W
So should that have impact on games or not? My 920 has 8MB... so it would be a step down if I went 6MB?

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I completely understand. I also just noticed that in addition to 6.7% more shader cores the 580 also has 20% more memory. Of all the things to splurge on, the GPU is probably it.Oddly enough we have no i5-2500k FSXMark11 results. Perhaps when people start getting their replacement boards...

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dez, thanks. Money is no object up to 1000€, up from that, it's an object :)I can either fit MSI Hydrogen in the price, or 2600K, with the fact that I have to shell out another 100€ for the watercooler at some later point.Silence is very important to me while gaming and working in general on the computer. That is why I have highly silent computer and want to keep it that way.

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the L3 cache is a non factor in gaming. I would go with a GTX570 and put what I save towards a 2600K just in case it oveclocks a bit higher, rather than skimping on the CPU, but that's just me... and that might change next week when I put my new 480 to the test, who knowsThe only reason to get the 2600K is the extra overclock headroom and that's a gamble anyway, but I'm under the impression that a 570 will handle 8xSQ just fine and that the 580 will not be any better. I got me a 2600K just because the store where I reserved my 2500K told me I would have to wait a whole month, so I just changed the orderAnd another option for memory would be to get a fast set of 2x2GB now and then later when there's fast & cheap 4GB sticks available get one of those if you need 8GB. And you would still have a free slot for another 4GB upgrade in the future. Just an idea

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4GB is a no-go. I have 6GB now, and I turned off swapping. I want to keep it that way. 4GB is cutting it WAY too close without swap.Thanks for your perspective on 570, will surely keep an open mind.

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Some other things I'm reading, would like to know what you think:Ivy Bridge is supposed to come middle of 2011, and bring about 20% more performance - if that's to believe.But, they are saying also that it should be compatible with the current 1155 socket. Even current mainboards.Also Flight might be coming with HT support - so now I buy i5, without HT - and then Flight comes out, maybe, supporting it. I'd rip my brains out...Also if IB comes out, shelled out 250€ for i7, getting new CPU? Steep...

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My 2 cents:

Ivy Bridge is supposed to come middle of 2011, and bring about 20% more performance - if that's to believe.
I would expect it to overclock a bit better as it's just a shrink to 22nm. but that's about it. A 20% is way too optimistic (6GHz)
But, they are saying also that it should be compatible with the current 1155 socket. Even current mainboards.
That's what I've heard too
Also Flight might be coming with HT support - so now I buy i5, without HT - and then Flight comes out, maybe, supporting it. I'd rip my brains out...Also if IB comes out, shelled out 250€ for i7, getting new CPU? Steep...
I think we've become obsessed with CPU performance (thanks FSX) Why are we suddenly hoping for HT to be important when it's never been for any games before? Flight should be GPU bound and a 100$ Phenom II should do just fine, so if we were to speculate what Flight will bring and base our upgrade decisions on that, we should probably not upgrade at all as our computers are already monsters and FSX is the only thing they can't run maxed out. I'm almost certain HT will be useless for Flight too, it would need to make full use of 4 cores to begin with.Hell, we don't even know if Flight will be a (better) simulator, and we are still basing our upgrade decisions on Flight.... but under FSX performance standardsIt's your money, your decision, but I bet those extra 100$ you won't miss HT for years to come. I turned it off just for 100 extra MHz and by the time I need it this rig will be long gone Even if it did make a difference it should be 70 vs 80 FPS, not 10 vs 20 if you know what I mean

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Oh you are so right, it's all FSX fault. I can't remember when I was so crazy about the upgrade, not knowing which way to go. When I was upgrading E6600 for my FS9 it was such an easy decision. Faster, normal-priced, go...Now, OMG.I'm leaning towards i5 and nice watercooled gtx580, should bring me much happiness in games and all that I need in windows. If I didn't have this nice offer for my current PC (getting 700€ for those 4 main components), I'd keep my current sys and just get GTX580.Say, why can't SB support 2000mhz RAM?

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Now I think of it, have you considered keeping your 6GB of RAM and running them in Flex Mode? (first 4GB in dual channel and the rest in single channel, that, on the other hand makes little to no difference anyway)Just in case it helps saving money, unless you have already commited to sell the whole package, that is

Say, why can't SB support 2000mhz RAM?
Who knows, something to do with multi availability maybe because of the FSB being fixed at 100? No idea to be honest

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First of all, I was under the impression that Ivy Bridge wouldn't be out until December or January. Second, who knows when Flight will be out? Regardless, I think going with the 2500k now and then upgrading to Ivy Bridge when it's released is a really good game plan. That will yield the most flexibility, computing power, and best performance for Flight in the long run.I will say from some of the media on the Flight website, it does look like a decent improvement to me - primarily in the form of improved shadows. I'm pretty sure in one of the videos, clouds cause shadows on the plane as it flies under them - that's pretty awesome and realistic if it's true. A lot of life could be added to FSX in the form of shadows alone. From the screenshots, it also looks like the default scenery is a little better as well. I'm actually pretty impressed with the March sample of screen shots.

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Guys, thanks for your suggestions, but I thought about it alot, and made a following decision (you might jump and me now, but I have couple of reasons):Gainward GeForce GTX 580, 1536MB DDR5, HDMI, DVI, DP 424€Corsair Vengeance DIMM Kit 8GB PC3-14900U CL9-9-9-24 105€ASUS P8P67 PRO 156€Intel Core i7 2600K PC1155 3,4GHz 8MB boxed 269€GPU should be OK I gather. I will get watercooler in a month or so.The reason for slower RAM is that SB doesn't support 2000, and Kit with 8GB @ 2133 costs WAY more (200€+).Pro as suggested (pricediff to non-Pro is very little). Deluxe is not needed (front box).And finally 2600K:- I now have a CPU that supports HT and has 8MB of cache - I am doing this upgrade more or less against my will, since my friend's computer died, and he accepted the 700€ deal on my config, so the "sidegrade" is virtually without cost (only part pushing my costs up is the GTX580)- I am reading that if @ 4Ghz+ on i7 currently, SB is nothing but sidegradeSo if I deduct prices of the new hardware from 700€, I am selling my GPU for 170€, which is about 50€ more than it's being sold on Ebay. Plus possibly 30€ for the watercooler on Ebay (someone want it??) :)I know I will probably turn off HT for the higher OC on the 2600K, but that gives me at least a better feeling for a possibility of the higher OC.And still, if I have something that profits from HT, I can easily back down on OC a bit and turn on HT.Thanks everyone! (I know I'm doing otherwise than suggested, but you at least helped me with the decision)

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It's perfectly fine. It's up to each one of us to decide what's worth paying a bit more, and you where lucky enough to sell your old parts in no time and at a good price, so enjoy your new setup! Please let us know if it turns out being a sidegrade or not, I'm pretty sure you'll find out that's not true. Obviously it will not be a tenfold performance increase or something like that, but I'm willing to bet you will not be disappointed. A stock clocked SB is a sidegrade compared to a 4GHz Nehalem, but when overclocked SB is a 30 - 40% faster and there's nothing other than an architecture upgrade that can do that for FSX. No video card, memory speed, SSD... etc Anyway, if you don't mind spending the extra 100€ for the 2600K, you might as well spend 20€ more in the 2000MHz RAM that will probably overclock to 2133MHz and get that 4% that would equate to another 200MHz CPU overclock.Your decision again, I don't think you can go wrong either wayKeep us posted my friend!

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I never had successful RAM overclock. Why should this one be any different?Corey, do you have yours running at 2133? Since you said you have the same one, but why not then at 2133 rather than 1866?

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I never had successful RAM overclock. Why should this one be any different?Corey, do you have yours running at 2133? Since you said you have the same one, but why not then at 2133 rather than 1866?
I think he is running his RAM with an undervolt (1.56V vs rated 1.65)What I mean is to get the 2000MHz one, and overclock it to 2133MHz even if you need to loosen the timings to CL10. Apparently higher memory clocks help more than tighter timings, but again, the difference it's going to make is minimal. Your call

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