Crew Flow Problem - Climb

[jxs 0]

Thanks Bryan,I was thinking about that option, but need to resolve the issue I'm having in with FSX first, as in my other thread.John

[NGXfanatic 85]

Sorry to keep bringing this up, but I just want to clarify my main point. In my opinion, a crucial command that is listed in the official NADP1 procedure outlined above is missing in the script workflow in FSCrew's modeling of such procedure when NADP1 is briefed in the departure briefing:"For NADP 1 (former ICAO A)At 3000 AGL Set flaps up Speed , Accelerate and retract flaps on schedule then push VNAV,."At 3000 feet (or accel height), the only command offered is our instruction to the copilot to retract flaps. Quite simply, the "set flaps up speed" command works as advertised for NADP2, and what I am asking is for it to be included in the NADP1 scripting at accel height BEFORE the call to retract flaps. This missing step speaks to the clumsiness in the workflow using NADP1 during a hectic period, and because it's missing I have to use NADP2 as a workaround just to get that access to that command. It's not a deal breaker for me, but I'm sure it would go a long way to making those who choose NADP1 enjoy the product more, and take advantage of all that FS2crew offers. I don't see why it can't be fixed in an update, as both climbout procedures are using the same FMC revision (10.7 or earlier I believe), and we all know for a fact now that iFLY does not simulate FMC 10.8 (which allows VNAV to be armed on the ground or in the air at accel height). PMDG is another story, they have stated that they are modeling 10.8 (it remains to be seen if 10.7 is an option for those simulating real world carriers who did not purchase 10.8), but I would hope that if indeed PMDG offers both FMC versions, FS2crew will also allow the flexibilty to use iFly's "older" climbout method if necessary.Bottom line, I just want that one command to be put in the proper place, because it's rather awkward for the captain to reach for the mcp speed knob while hand flying the climbout, and I would rather use NADP1 as intended instead of using NADP2 just to get the flaps speed call. I hope you understand my concern, because other than that I have no complaints in how FS2crew works, the program really does reduce the PF's workload considerably and allows us to replicate real life ops within the limitations of a single person flight simulator environment.All the best,

[byork 2,259]

Hi A.J.I'll look into adding it into the next update.It won't be hard to add.Cheers,

[NGXfanatic 85]

Great news Bryan, thanks!

[NGXfanatic 85]

Sorry to be a pest, but I have one last request. In the interim, I'm using NADP 2 (even though I'm really performing a NADP 1) just to get the set flaps up speed call. Now, I notice that when I use that profile at the set climb thrust phase, there is no call for a vertical mode before the set flaps up speed call. I'm not sure how it works, but technically shouldn't FLCH be engaged before the call for flaps up speed so the flight director can have a command speed to follow (only after FLCH/or autopilot cmd A is a command speed indicated in magenta on the PFD, and in the MCP speed window, and it always happens right around climb thrust) Again, it's just something that would make our lives a little easier, just as the fix to add the missing flaps up speed call to NADP1 should allow us to follow proper procedures, we may need FLCH inserted into the NADP2 script right after the climb thrust call. I'm by no means an expert on NG operations, but I just feel like something is missing. NOISE ABATEMENT DEPARTURE PROCEDURE B (NADP 2 )400ft Select Roll modeTake-off to 1000 ft above aerodrome elevation:Climb at V2 + 10 to 20 kt.At 1000 ft:Climb ThrustSet Flaps up SpeedMaintaining a positive rate of climb, accelerate to zero flap minimum safemaneuvering speed (VZF ) retracting flap on schedule.Thereafter, 1000 ft to 3000 ft:Continue climb at not greater than VZF + 10 kt.At 3000 ft:Push VNAVAccelerate smoothly to en-route climb speed.

[damienw 1]

Sorry to be a pest, but I have one last request. In the interim, I'm using NADP 2 (even though I'm really performing a NADP 1) just to get the set flaps up speed call. Now, I notice that when I use that profile at the set climb thrust phase, there is no call for a vertical mode before the set flaps up speed call. I'm not sure how it works, but technically shouldn't FLCH be engaged before the call for flaps up speed so the flight director can have a command speed to follow (only after FLCH/or autopilot cmd A is a command speed indicated in magenta on the PFD, and in the MCP speed window, and it always happens right around climb thrust) Again, it's just something that would make our lives a little easier, just as the fix to add the missing flaps up speed call to NADP1 should allow us to follow proper procedures, we may need FLCH inserted into the NADP2 script right after the climb thrust call. I'm by no means an expert on NG operations, but I just feel like something is missing. NOISE ABATEMENT DEPARTURE PROCEDURE B (NADP 2 )400ft Select Roll modeTake-off to 1000 ft above aerodrome elevation:Climb at V2 + 10 to 20 kt.At 1000 ft:Climb ThrustSet Flaps up SpeedMaintaining a positive rate of climb, accelerate to zero flap minimum safemaneuvering speed (VZF ) retracting flap on schedule.Thereafter, 1000 ft to 3000 ft:Continue climb at not greater than VZF + 10 kt.At 3000 ft:Push VNAVAccelerate smoothly to en-route climb speed.

767Fan,The NADP Procedure is correct as it is, NADP 1 uses flightlevel change and NADP 2 uses VNAV, there is no pushing of FLCH in NADP 2. This is how the aircraft is flown in the real world. I can understand your point of "set flaps up speed" but when iFly update their FMC to 10.8 bryan will have to change it again as that version has flap overspeed protections.Like you said "you by no means an expert on NG operations" but to some extent you are correct, i have been doing this for a long time though, the procedure is correct, take into consideration airline SOPs vary greatly at times.With the exception of the "Set Flaps Up Speed" command seemed to be missing,..the procedures ARE correct.RegardsDamien WeekesCaptain 737 BBJ

[NGXfanatic 85]

767Fan,The NADP Procedure is correct as it is, NADP 1 uses flightlevel change and NADP 2 uses VNAV, there is no pushing of FLCH in NADP 2. This is how the aircraft is flown in the real world. I can understand your point of "set flaps up speed" but when iFly update their FMC to 10.8 bryan will have to change it again as that version has flap overspeed protections.Like you said "you by no means an expert on NG operations" but to some extent you are correct, i have been doing this for a long time though, the procedure is correct, take into consideration airline SOPs vary greatly at times.With the exception of the "Set Flaps Up Speed" command seemed to be missing,..the procedures ARE correct.RegardsDamien WeekesCaptain 737 BBJ

That makes sense Damien, and I appreciate your response. I did not know iFLY was going to update to the 10.8 FMC, that is news to me! Thanks