Anyone Else w/Overclocked SB Having Sporadic Stutter?

[Noel 4,507]

Hi, Did you remove the FSUIPC auto-save feature? Remember that FSUIPC runs inside the FSX process, and so it has the ability to momentarily steal time from FSX, causing FSX to apparently stop for a moment. If you have, try the following: First, I'd remove the overclock and try it without. Second, have you applied any tweaks to FSX.cfg? If so, delete the FSX.cfg file and let it build a new one. Try it without tweaks. Add back in the line HIGHMEMFIX=1 if you get graphical issues. Third, I'd list your current FSX configuration (as set in the GUI). AutoGen, Bloom, AI traffic, and all types of shadows kill FSX performance and introduce stutters. AI traffic has a memory leak bug, and AutoGen appears to do so too. Disable *all* of these, and see if it fixes the issue. Restart your computer after making these changes, and then test - there are numerous issues with these, that are best cleared by totally restarting the system to ensure you start clean. Fourth, stop all background processes (including any anti-virus, etc.). AV particularly eats resources, slows the computer, and isn't worth the CPU cycles to begin with. It will take a couple of hours to test all the above, but you should get there in the end. Post back here with the results of each item. Don't restore each item after testing - just try the next item. Just to clarify my earlier comment: the system doesn't know or care what kind of hard disk you've got - it only knows/cares about the SATA III interface. This is connected to either the Northbridge or Southbridge of your chipset. If it is connected to the Southbridge, things can be a bit slower than connecting to the Northbridge. Overall, this has little impact on the system except when it is directly using the device, then the speed of the disk can be a factor in delays incurred reading/writing the device. Regardless, you can't exceed the bus speed (and note that you can NEVER achieve the maximum bus speed due to overhead by the SATA protocol and other bus/device management data). The CPU doesn't care about your graphics card. DMA permits the hardware to directly access the memory bus without requiring CPU access. HOWEVER... only one device can access the memory at one time, and this includes the CPU. If a device on the bus is doing a memory access, ALL other devices must wait (including the CPU). FSX itself is not the best coded application. For all the talk of it being designed for future hardware, it was largely an excuse for its very poor performance on current hardware. FSX is largely FS9, which was largely FS2002, which was largely FS2000, which started with FS98. As you can see, it has been added to over the years, become bloated, and is now paying the price. The new features of FSX have quite serious problems, and some of the things they did (e.g. batch processing of AutoGen using fibers) was just a total disaster. Dig around MSDN for more tech info on that if you're interested - I can think of no time you'd want to micro-manage an application to that degree. It takes overhead, and ultimately runs slower, not to mention being so full of "gotchas" that it isn't worth the hassle. Does your processor have hyper-threading? You may want to try disabling it. Best regards,Robin.

Unless Noel has deviated from his original issue, what he has been experiencing and myself as well is not poor performance w/ the NGX. It's a sudden, short lived, recurrent hijacking of system resources, as I say in the context of good general performance w/ the NGX. I think a good next step is to re-look at both Process Monitor and Performance Monitor (if it's still available in Vista or 7) to try to pin down what is grabbing resources. To complicate issues, we're not seeing this in any other plane or scenario, correct Noel, or no? Haven't tried perf mon and don't know if it or a similar utility is available in Vista. Other Noel

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Unless Noel has deviated from his original issue, what he has been experiencing and myself as well is not poor performance w/ the NGX. It's a sudden, short lived, recurrent hijacking of system resources, as I say in the context of good general performance w/ the NGX. I think a good next step is to re-look at both Process Monitor and Performance Monitor (if it's still available in Vista or 7) to try to pin down what is grabbing resources. To complicate issues, we're not seeing this in any other plane or scenario, correct Noel, or no? Haven't tried perf mon and don't know if it or a similar utility is available in Vista. Other Noel

Noel Yes, that's correct. For me, this is unique to the NGX, though I wonder if an issue has been masked perhaps, because other addons don't have so much going on. My FPS are fine, and it is normally very smooth aside from this jarring stutter. I used Process Monitor today for a while, trying to trap the offending events. Interestingly enough, "FNPLicensingService.ext" caused a stutter. In researching it on the web, it was tied to Adobe for (as I recall) authentication. Well, I figured I didn't need that. Wrong. When I renamed that and it's cousin in the folder, fnp_registrations.xml, the NGX said I needed to activate when I tried to load it on the next session. I noticed PMDG referenced in the *.xml...guess it needs to be there. If it's an activation check, I wish it wouldn't happen in flight. So, I couldn't test with this out of the way, though it's not the only process I think that has interfered. I found UT2 loading traffic, and have since been flying with that off. Still getting the odd hiccup. I also caught MSI Afterburner horning in on the party. I turned off the monitoring and manually set the fan speed to a safe value to test. For a change I tried a complete flight from Helena, MT to Missoula....probably saw 15 or so hiccups. Enough to kind of spoil the atmosphere. I'm in the midst of packing for an overseas trip, so I've run out of testing time. Robin Thanks for your input. A number of those items were addressed earlier in the thread, and no I don't have HT on. I know it's getting to be a long thread. Thanks for your input, and you're right in suggesting taking things back to basics and eliminating things. That's really what I've been doing, rolling things out of the mix and testing for effect, trying to eliminate things. It acts like a momentary intrusion. It a bit of a mystery, this one. All the best

[chorba 0]

Unless Noel has deviated from his original issue, what he has been experiencing and myself as well is not poor performance w/ the NGX. It's a sudden, short lived, recurrent hijacking of system resources, as I say in the context of good general performance w/ the NGX. I think a good next step is to re-look at both Process Monitor and Performance Monitor (if it's still available in Vista or 7) to try to pin down what is grabbing resources. To complicate issues, we're not seeing this in any other plane or scenario, correct Noel, or no? Haven't tried perf mon and don't know if it or a similar utility is available in Vista. Other Noel

I Couldn't agree more! I think that something is taking up all the resources, like a huge file or application that is being loaded at certian points throughout a flight, but I have no idea what it might be! I'm experiencing the same freezing then continuing like nothing ever happened then freezing again problem btw and it's driving me crazy! The freezing is not related to what the hotfix was supposed to fix because the NGX freezes for a while then continues working (like a long stutter), it doesn't freeze permanently like others have been experiencing. I don't experience the problem with all the other heavy aircraft I fly like the PMDG 747, PMDG MD-11, Level-D 767, Qualitywings 757 so I know it's only the NGX. I've flown other aircraft after I've installed the NGX and none have the same problem. My FSX is fully stock apart from the aircraft so I know that weather, scenery, and other FSX add-ons are not causing the problem. I don't have FSUIPC registered so the auto-save feature does not exist. My fsx.cfg has never been tweaked. I also know that my anti-virus, windows update, windows security essentials, or windows defender are not the culprits because I have those things turned off when flying. I also having nothing else running in the background when flying. I've installed the hotfix but the freezing/stuttering continues. Maybe the Airac 1108 is causing problems? I've updated all my PMDG products with the Airac 1108 from navigraph after I installed the NGX. So who knows maybe just a wild guess but you never know? Regards,Milo Hamilton

[Zunbapp 0]

Hey Milo, No I have installed AIRAC 1106 wich I still had. It didn't change a thing :(, I am going to reinstall my entire pc it is formatting my HD's at this moment. More and more people seem to have the same issue. And I only have this freezing with the NGX it doesn't show up with the PMDG 747X. Regards, Wesley den Hartogh

[chorba 0]

The freezing/hiccuping/stuttering issue with the NGX might be associated with a Simconnect problem. See this post: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/344479-why-is-simconnect-going-crazy-with-ngx/ What do you guys think? It sounds reasonable to me. Regards,Milo Hamilton

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The freezing/hiccuping/stuttering issue with the NGX might be associated with a Simconnect problem. See this post: http://forum.avsim.n...crazy-with-ngx/ What do you guys think? It sounds reasonable to me. Regards,Milo Hamilton

Milo I just read that post, and was thinking the same thing. I'll be interested to see where that investigation leads. I hope PMDG is active on the matter. FYI...I managed to try a few other things. I installed Nvidia's 280.xx drivers (again) but this time was careful to load only the video driver, rather than accept the 3D Vision and HD Audio drivers too. I saw calls to 3D Vision when using Process Monitor. It's probably the placebo effect, but it seemed to help some. For a test, I also installed a Vista 64 HDD that I had FSX on, and had used when I first built this SB machine. I installed the NGX on that disk, same machine, but different environment, and the problem persisted. I also took out the GTX580's and installed a GTX560TI from another machine, just to eliminate one more thing. I hope someone figures this out.

[Noel 4,507]

I hope someone figures this out.

Noel, what's the status of this issue for you now? I have them but they are so few by comparison. I have the latest hotfix applied and it seems they have improved quite considerably.

[Tabs 2,790]

Couple ideas here: 1. Have you tried running lowered settings in Nvidia Inspector like 4xS with no transparency AA? There's a threshold with high res textures in the sim where the combination of the NGX along with REX and stuff like that will start causing the GPU to overload trying to AA so many of them at once and it'll start stuttering. 2. Are you positive your antivirus or other security software is set to exclude the FSX process and folder? There was a person earlier in the thread saying that solved it for him. Real time scanning engines like that can definitely cause this sort of thing. 3. I think looking for things in fsx.exe using Process Explorer is a red herring - there are TONS of flaws in FSX like that where there's calls to missing files, calls to registry locations that don't exist etc. FSX.exe believe it or not actually causes six hidden program exceptions as you load the sim, every single time - they never fixed this kind of stuff. You can see those if you run the sim in debug mode in Visual Studio like we do when building our addons. The fact that the sim actually pauses means there's actual I/O activity - looking for a missing file and not finding is very unlikely to cause this because there's no actual file there that gets read, it's just an internal software error when it can't find it - uses very little resources to do that. What might be worth looking at is the total CPU use or disk I/O use when the pause happens - if you see an antivirus program using a bunch of CPU or disk when it happens, that's likely your culprit. I'll bet anything you're looking for something outside of FSX.exe causing this - everyone would be seeing it if it was inside the sim's process I think.

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Noel, what's the status of this issue for you now? I have them but they are so few by comparison. I have the latest hotfix applied and it seems they have improved quite considerably.

Noel I just returned from a month of vacation. During my time away, I made a list of additional items to test upon my return. Unfortunately, nothing I've tried will stop these hard stutters. For clarification, I'm referring to 3 to 5 jarring stutters experienced during a takeoff, crosswind, downwind, final and landing - closed circuit flight. Last night, I turned all of the sliders to the left...and it still does it. With FSX at its most basic, with no traffic, no EZdok, REX textures removed...I still get these hard stutters running at 4.8 Ghz. (I have run at stock speeds and tried many other tweaks and adjustments, all of which are listed in earlier posts in this thread.)

Couple ideas here: 1. Have you tried running lowered settings in Nvidia Inspector like 4xS with no transparency AA? There's a threshold with high res textures in the sim where the combination of the NGX along with REX and stuff like that will start causing the GPU to overload trying to AA so many of them at once and it'll start stuttering. 2. Are you positive your antivirus or other security software is set to exclude the FSX process and folder? There was a person earlier in the thread saying that solved it for him. Real time scanning engines like that can definitely cause this sort of thing. 3. I think looking for things in fsx.exe using Process Explorer is a red herring - there are TONS of flaws in FSX like that where there's calls to missing files, calls to registry locations that don't exist etc. FSX.exe believe it or not actually causes six hidden program exceptions as you load the sim, every single time - they never fixed this kind of stuff. You can see those if you run the sim in debug mode in Visual Studio like we do when building our addons. The fact that the sim actually pauses means there's actual I/O activity - looking for a missing file and not finding is very unlikely to cause this because there's no actual file there that gets read, it's just an internal software error when it can't find it - uses very little resources to do that. What might be worth looking at is the total CPU use or disk I/O use when the pause happens - if you see an antivirus program using a bunch of CPU or disk when it happens, that's likely your culprit. I'll bet anything you're looking for something outside of FSX.exe causing this - everyone would be seeing it if it was inside the sim's process I think.

Hi Ryan Thank you for your thoughts on this. 1. Yes, I have tried all manner of Nvidia Inspector settings, including just off. 2. I don't have any antivirus on my machine - it's just used for FSX and I do my internet stuff on other computers, including downloads for FSX. 3. I'm glad you mentioned all of this regarding trying to use Process Monitor. It's next to impossible to nail down what's going on, and it sounds like from your informed view, any manner of red herrings are around to tempt one off onto some bunny trail. I've spent time trying to trap things with PM - sounds like it's a lost cause. And I keep running into Peter Cottontail. (For those old enough to remember - "Here comes Peter Cottontail, hopping down the bunny trail, hippity hoppity...." -- Yes, I think I'm starting to go over the edge on this one!) Ryan - One thing I'm always suspicious of, is the sound system. I've had stutters coincide with sound events, but not always. Early on, I disabled my Gigabyte onboard sound, and installed an Asus sound card, with no effect. I've turned the sound off in FSX, but have wondered if the *.wav file is still executed, but just muted. It may be nothing, but I've noticed that sometimes it's a sound event that seems to trigger the stutter. Do you have any thoughts on that? Here are some of the items, in addition to those listed earlier in this thread that I've messed with: - Downloaded and installed the latest NGX RTM, which I think has Hotfix 3...I couldn't find the standalone Hotfix 3 file. - Tried various FPS limits from 20 to 60, with and without the Frame Rate Limiter, Windowed and Full Screen. - I've loaded (clean install) at least half a dozen different Nvidia drivers, from the 260's to the latest beta. - Tried VSync on/off, using Nvidia Inspector, or FSX.cfg. - Assigned EZdok to Core 0...tried it without EZdock. - Adjusted Max Prerendered Frames settings in Antilag Frame Rate Limiter and Nvidia Inspector. - Eliminated the fx_skidmark.fx file. - Removed my CH Controllers and installed on different MB USB ports versus USB hub. Perhaps it's some bad combination of the NGX and my particular hardware setup. This surely does not happen with other complex addons on my machine, but the NGX appears to be unique among all addons, raising the bar to new levels. I had mentioned in an earlier post, that I had installed the NGX on another HDD with a different OS and FSX installation (Vista64), but on the same hardware, with no luck. This morning I plan on installing the NGX on my old C2D system (3.8Ghz / GTX560TI) and see what I get. That machine has FSX + SP2, versus my current SB machine with FSX Gold/Acceleration. We'll see what happens.

[bradrcfii 3]

Concerning the windows emphasis with the touchscreen monitor; I had a similar problem where after using the touchscreen, emphasis did not transfer back to the main monitor(s). I reported this in the FSUIPC forums. Pete picked up on it and implemented a new feature in FSUIPC that solved my windows emphasis problem allowing me to use a separate touchscreen monitor for the CDU. However, my problem did not effect sound.

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Concerning the windows emphasis with the touchscreen monitor; I had a similar problem where after using the touchscreen, emphasis did not transfer back to the main monitor(s). I reported this in the FSUIPC forums. Pete picked up on it and implemented a new feature in FSUIPC that solved my windows emphasis problem allowing me to use a separate touchscreen monitor for the CDU. However, my problem did not effect sound.

Hi Brad I'm guessing you're referring to my earlier post in this thread... ====================================In Full Screen Mode, unlike any other FSX addon I've used, the sound changes when the emphasis is put on the touch screen, like when I input data in the CDU. I have to click the mouse on the main screen to reinstate the sound...it's like it's slightly muted, very noticeable...and odd.In Windowed Mode, this change in sound does not occur.==================================== That's interesting that FSUIPC was revised to address this. I'll have to download the latest version. Thanks. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Hotfix 3 addressed this issue for the NGX.

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To bring this saga to a close, Hotfix 4 cured the stutter/hiccup issue I've had with the NGX. I don't know what you folks did, but thank you PMDG for fixing this!