Where is MS?

[Guest panda234]

Just curious. We've been beating this to death, got new clouds, new water textures, fixed this, fixed that, got this working, recognize that that is never going to work so leave it alone, argh, a whole lot of work by a whole lot of skilled and dedicated people and not one word out of Microsoft. Must be nice, do a release, sit back, work on the next one, and let us take care of this one...Just my thoughts...billgEDIT: sorry, feeling ornery this morning. After a reinstall blah blah...

[martyn 0]

DittoImagine buying a car and having to do all that.Upaid beta testerMartyn

[Guest shanwick]

>Must be nice, do a release, sit back, work on the next one, and let>us take care of this one...Here we go again.For goodness sake, chaps, leave off. We've had enough of MS bashing.If you don't like FS2004 then either write a flight simulator program yourself which has all of the things which MS have in FS2004 plus EVERYTHING which everyone else complains about - or give the hobby up.I really think that Avsim ought to kill off these on-going MS bashing threads.David

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"I really think that Avsim ought to kill off these on-going MS bashing threads."I don't, even though I think FS2004 is a pretty good sim and arguably the best GA sim ever released. I fly it all day long with no issues, but I don't fly in the areas and seasons where the CTD's have happened.That said, I think it is good to expect accountability between sims, and the throwing out of the "if you don't like it, write one yourself" is a cop-out, since that's what the user base pays Microsoft to do. Yet some protect the sim as if it were freeware.Reading the posts of CTD's. and seeing that the only way to circumvent them seems to be workarounds posted by the end-users, leads me to believe that people have validity to voicing their gripes. Add to that many new users who have received COF over the holidays, and that will lead to threads like this one. If we don't like them, we can tune them out. Personally I didn't view the post that opened this thread as a bash, as it raises a legitmate question. Most vendors are present overtime to support a new product release. But a Fortune 500 company I guess is exempt from that?And do we call any negative post regarding Microsoft "bashing?" If we do, we will always pay for our "patches"--the cycle will never end. -John

[bob.bernstein 0]

Perhaps you make good points John, but don't you agree nothing new is said or accomplished by starting a thread like this. Totally tiring repetition. Anyone who can read now knows MS policy of communicating to the general public on forums. Why should we discuss it again?Bob B

[Guest SoarPics]

This is a substantial problem. I can fly "sometimes" using the "no_crash" fix, but I still experience far too many CTD's. I'm flying real time, and the sim just isn't working during the present season.MS needs to address this. Indeed there have been many "bashing" threads, but this subject is important. This isn't AG that fails to release from memory, or bridges that aren't where they're supposed to be. This is an issue that is keeping folks from using a product they paid for. When the sim CTD's (with no warning of any kind) that to me means it's unusable.I've been buying and supporting MDFS sims since FS95, but I won't buy another until this matter is patched. It's that ugly! Definately a serious product flaw.

[Guest panda234]

Let me elaborate. Hey, when I'm climbing out of CYYZ (with Simflyers), traffic all around me, reflections off the lake, the CN Tower off to my left, the realistic whine of the engines, talking to ATC, I'm immersed. This is a fantastic sim, no doubt about it. And it looks like we're hitting the groove as far as addons go--almost every week there's a quality addon that really enhances the game. And every day there are smaller addons that add up. I'm impressed. That being said, there are some issues that need to be addressed, and I find it surprising that they aren't even being discussed. I'm not expecting a date that all the nigglies will be fixed, but I would expect that there would at least be some discussion around some of the more serious problems. Not bashing anybody, just making a statement...billg

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"Why should we discuss it again?"That is an excellent question.... And I think the answer is a pretty simple one. I think even those of us who think the sim is pretty solid would love to see an update from Microsoft. We accept them from other payware vendors greedily enough. When Dreamfleet released a Cardinal RG and gave it free to their users, nobody told 'em they'd go out of business. To the contrary, they cemented a relationship with the community that is incredibly strong. And that's just one of many vendors... Why should we discuss Microsoft's approach again? Because if we all just give up and accept Microsoft's approach as a given and never discuss it again, nothing will change and the sim's patches will always be paid ones. I think these threads do provoke positive responses from Microsoft... The SDK's are certainly coming out sooner than they did w/FS2002. Last, even if we think the topic isn't worth discussing, it isn't anyone's right to suggest censoring those that do. They paid for the sim... I don't agree with Microsoft bashing in any form and blatant bashes should be removed--but holding them honest and accountable and reminding them of why they are in business--that just strengthens the value of my Microsoft shares :)-John

[Guest valhalla1944]

My guess is that MS is busy porting the flightsim to Xbox, like they did this year with Links 2003. Any thoughts on this?Danny

[Guest rogue1]

I got Links 2004 for XBox on Friday (12/26), spent the whole weekend playing thumb golf. No flying, just whacking a little ball around my TV. First game that I ever got that has my wife putting down a book and sitting in front of the TV playing a video game with me for more than 5 minutes. Go figure. And I can't wait to play in an XBox Live tournament. Woohoo. That being said, I have a copy of the Links prior to 2003 (can't remember the version think 2001, but I'm at the office and cannot be sure). And compared to that PC version, the XBox version is very dumbed down (not a bad thing, probably why my wife will play a round with me), but the PC version is much harder to play well.If they are porting FS to the XBox, it will probably be reduced to the lowest common denominator from a skill standpoint and definitely not be the sim that we have now. It will be pretty, but it won't be "as real as it can get"!As for the support issue, MS needs to fix this CTD issue. It is impossible to fly to certain areas in certain seasons? What's up with that. Nothing is worse than being 3 hours into a real-time flight and getting a CTD! I can deal with low frame-rates (resolved by upgrading my hardware, had to do that for FS2000 also; so MS is helping my local hardware vendor that's for sure), quirky flight models, but not these types of crashes. Someone has gone and spent time investigating the problem and providing a 90% solution, but I think MS needs to step up to the plate and fix their own problems here. Publishing SDK's is well and good for 3rd party developers, but it doesn't come close to providing a solution to the problems with CTD's.Jim

[bob.bernstein 0]

Your logic is, the users whined, ms then published an sdk, so lets whine somemore, cuz we want more sdks? But odd isn't it, this whine wasn't about sdks, it was about fixes to product function....so you generalize between sdk writing and changing the product fuction into a general concept of "ms reaction"....any reaction is "feelgood"...and so justifies the threads?John, c'mon....you think the pace of sdk release is different because consistent bashing and whining has occured on AVsim forums?What evidence do you have to say that this exact same pace of sdk release wouldn't have occurred without all the whining?My belief is that the whining is ignored. The sdks were planned all along. We know that. The pace is likely dictated by manpower availability at MS, minimizing overtime, and focus on other product opportunity. If I'm right, it kindof eliminates your logic entirely, doesn't it.So....going on the evidence alone....in which no connection between whining and sdk release is indicated...and certainly no connection between sdk release and product function changes exists......I repeat my question...."why should we discuss it again"?Cheers,B

[Guest hoohah]

I'm sure it's on the project schedule at MS, if not already underway.I expect it will be done in the next version (or it may actually _be_ the next version). I can see it now; "FS-X" will be the title, and it will be hyped out the wazzoo.It's part of the reason that I've made a decision to not purchase the next version of MSFS. I'm going to be content with FS9 and buy some more addons without worrying about compatibility with the next version. I'm going to buy a new machine in the next 6 months, and I won't wory about how FS-X will peform on my new machine.Hopefully, the next version will have a revamped/improved flight engine and aircraft systems engine. If it does, it will be buggy and I'll wait for the following version to buy in. If it does not, I won't want the damn thing anyway.If anything I;ll get a new version of X-Plane (which MS is sure to purchase at some point ;)

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"Your logic is, the users whined, ms then published an sdk, so lets whine somemore, cuz we want more sdks? But odd isn't it, this whine wasn't about sdks, it was about fixes to product function....so you generalize between sdk writing and changing the product fuction into a general concept of "ms reaction"....any reaction is "feelgood"...and so justifies the threads?"Now you are putting words in my mouth Bob--something that isn't like you... I didn't say this post or posts regarding functionality had/have anything to do with the SDK... But posts regarding the SDK (or the lack of one) did appear, and Microsoft has responded with SDK's sooner. May be coincidence, maybe not... But I still hold validity of making such posts... I won't accept your bait to tie one post or posts with release of an SDK... But you know and I know that Microsoft does read these forums and does respond--and you know where to find the "evidence" you are looking for....

[bob.bernstein 0]

lol, well, I think of u as a friend. I tend to go with the "coincidence" theory. THe "evidence" you speak of is not the forums impacts but the messages that you and I and others take directly to MS. All of today's whining has already been provided to MS directly. Wouldn't you agree?B

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"All of today's whining has already been provided to MS directly. Wouldn't you agree?"No argument on that one.... But I can't help but be reminded how a few "whiners" turned into a chorus of discontent that eventually changed much of Europe...and tore down a wall some felt would stand forever. I am sure there were those in the inner circles on the other side of that wall that had the inside track to those who brought about the change. But change wasn't brought about until people united and showed solidarity... I think that logic, despite the age of my logic circuits, is pretty sound :)