MD-11F Range...?

[Aerobus 0]

Perusing Flightaware I have noticed that freight flights out of Anchorage are making 4500nm+ trips (ZSPD/VHHH/RCTP...etc) and I know that the MD-11F has some legs provided there is a cut in payload but does anyone have a rough idea numbers wise as to how much freight these aircraft are taking off with? Thanks!

[phil747fan 14]

to take the max payload i dont think the 3700 nm will may be even taken in consideration ... not easy to find out because only a few datas are available and seems really sensitive ... here s the scenario with my datas. so we re well below max pld. on 4500 nm example. fuel 117 356tow 273 294ldw 213 872oew 112 748zfw 204 710pld 91 962holding fuel 2 900 00:30altn 200 nm 8 900 00:37 ldw 206.8trte res 5% 3 890 00:29 rte 4500 nm 77 800 09:36 ldw 195tres fuel 15 690zfw 179 310tow 272 800pld 66 562 of course didnt check the other parameters as max tow and ldw for limitations on rwy, 1st segment and others but i ll give you an idea ...all the best.

[pcubine 143]

Aerobus The longest MD-11F I have done is EDDF-KLAX about 5000 miles. The fuel required is 245000 lbs with a 35000 lbs reserve. Alternate is KSAN. I think the cargo was around 80 tons with a flex takeoff from EDDF with 500-600 ft of runway left. The longest MD-11 was EDDM-KLAX about 5300 miles. Fuel was 255000 lbs, load was 2/3 passengers with a couple of cargo containers to bring it close to maximum takeoff weight and still do a flex takeoff. Flaps are 20 on all takeoffs and TOPCAT is used to calculate flex temp. Michael Cubine

[phil747fan 14]

what was your payload ?

[pcubine 143]

phil747fan I you are asking me, it is 80 tons or 160000 lbs. It is in the post. I do so many long distance flights all the figures kind of run together. I will do a EDDM-KLAX MD-11F flight tomorrow and let you what know the figures are. I usually do an MD-11 but I will do the cargo tomorrow and let you know. Michael Cubine

[phil747fan 14]

Michael, you cant take that much payload on this flight that will be roughly 5230 nm. my sample was for 4500 nm in standard isa and i doubt you ll not meet a little of headwind on this trip. it was the problem of the md11 : the payload versus the range .... otherwise it s a great airplane and im very interested to see your planned numbers and what you ll get when you ll land. ps : 1kg = 2.241 lbs

[phil747fan 14]

Michael, just looking into my perfs datas heres roughly what your numbers should be ...5189 nm5600 nam 90.5 11:55 ldw 175altns ksfo 352 nm 7.5 00:58 ldw 167.5 ksan 148 nm 4.5 00:32holding fuel 2.9 00:30route reserve 5% 3.3 00:30reserve 13.7zfw 161.3pld 48.55fuel 104.2tow 265.5 seems you ll be on the low side for the payload ... we re stretching a little ops for the MD11 ... all datas are in Tons and the NAM datas are the one i ve seen on flightaware so maybe your flight will be less ...but we have always the option to take less fuel but the fun is trying to match ops ... you have always the option to take KSAN as your main altn and take 3 t extra load or keep the fuel and have 00:30 XTRA (captain choice) but DLH and SWR preferred KSFO as main altn ... enjoy your flight. Phil i didnt enclose txy fuel because i dont know the one you want.

[phil747fan 14]

and i forgot but not really important :if you need to carry one more ton (payload or fuel) you ll need to take around 0,517 t of fuel for each. to still have that ton at landing. good flight.

[pcubine 143]

Phil I am 37 minutes into the EDDM-KLAX flight. I have attached images of the TOPCAT Weight and Balances and Takeoff Sheet. I am no where close to 80 tons of payload. From EDDF-KLAX I could have added another 5 tons but it's still along away from 80 tons.The average headwind as reported by ASE is 78. I hope something is messed up with ASE other wise it is going to be close run deal in Los Angles. We well know tomorrow morning. I will let you know the remaining fuel when I arrive at KLAX. Michael Cubine

[phil747fan 14]

thanks Michael, from your numbers you have extra cushion on the payload, landing weights. (dont know the weights datas of PMDG) ... but i doubt you may have 5t more tons without extra fuel ..... for each extra 1000 lbs you ll need to have 545 lbs extra fuel.but wish you a good flight and safe landing.

[pcubine 143]

Phil Attached is a screenshot of the final approach to 24L at KLAX showing the amount of useful fuel on board. This is the second approach. On the first one, I forgot to press the LAND ARMED button so I missed both the localiser and the glideslope, Many times I have caputured the G/S from above but that has been from maybe 4000 to 5000 ft above ground level in a 752. I don't think I would care to try it in a MD-11 from 2200 feet AGL. The winds in Europe, the North Sea, and across the north of Great Britain were from the northwest between 105 and 120. Across the Atlantic and Canada the winds were considerably less so I don't think the average headwind was anywhere near the average of 78 knots as reported by ASE. That is the problem with the ASE average. The average is not weighted by the length of the leg. A 20 mile leg in Europe counts as much as a 400 mile leg across the Atlantic. And there are a lot of short legs in Europe. I would guess that half of 47 legs of this flight were passed in the first three hours of flight. I just did't have the time to enter winds aloft by waypoint which would be a lot more accurate. Michael Cubine

[phil747fan 14]

Michael, thanks for your report seems that Topcat is tailored for the MD11 of PMDG. due to your go around you landed roughly with 12,4t your expected landing fuel was 15,6t. you took 21500 lbs more fuel than my predicted one but as i wrote you need 1545 lbs to get 1000 lbs in your specific configuration.or when you put 1000 lbs at take off you ll get only 455 lbs remains at destination ....so from your 21500 extra fuel at destination you should have only remaining 9780 lbs so in fact you burnt 11720 lbs just to have that extra cushion ..... anyway it s a good report and wish i can see more reports in details like that. all the best. phil

[Aerobus 0]

Wow! Thanks for the replies!