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Sorux123

My first RC flight - a disaster

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Hello forum, After reading the manual and getting around how to set up RC properly i finally got to do my first flight with RC. It wasnt too bad to begin with, but just before reaching my Top of descent it gradually started to turn into a mess :D First of all, at about 5nm miles away from my TOD, the ATC tells me to descend to FL110 and that he wanted me at this altitude 30 miles away from the airport. Well as i had no other options to chose from i just had to go with it and start the descent as ATC requested, and this brings me to my first question: Is there any way ATC can let you follow your FMC descent path? A litlle bit later, i passed the last waypoint of my flightplan(i had no STAR route in the plan i loaded into RC because im using vroute premium) and ATC starts vectoring me away from my STAR route that i have programmed into the FMC. At some point later i get to contact approach and chose IAP approach. I try to get back onto the FMC-STAR route but it just gets too messy because ATC has already vectored me miles away. So my question is, how can i be able to fly a STAR route that i have programmed into my FMC but that is not in the "Vroute Premium" plan that i load into RC? I know that i can do this if i chose IAP approach, but that is only if the STAR route is within 40nm of the airport. But in my case the STAR started further out than 40nm, and so as soon as i passed my last waypoint in the plan that was loaded into RC, ATC vectored me away from the STAR in my FMC. I should mention that before starting RC i chose a spesific Arrival runway in the "Controller Info" tab. Could this perhaps be the reason why ATC started vectoring me away after i passed my last waypoint? In case my flightplan is relevant: EDDF to EHAMThe one i loaded into RC via Vroute premium: MARUN Y152 ARPEG Z850 HMM L602 RKNThe one i had programmed into my FMC: MARUN Y152 ARPEG Z850 HMM L602 RKN RKN2A ARTIP ILS27 Thanks for your time - Arhur

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Regarding SIDs and STARs RC does not care about your FMC database. RC just uses the waypoints filed in your plan. RC's local departure ends at 30 nm out. Local arrival begins just past 40 nm out from destination. The FMC is just a pilot aid to assist in complying with ATC instructions. For departures if your first filed waypoint is inside thirty nm out, RC assumes you are flying a SID and all waypoints have been files so you will not get vectors for departure. If not you can accept vectors to line you up for that first waypoint outside of 30 nm or preflight use the RC controller page to notify it that you flying all SID waypoints as filed with no vectors needed. These are the two 'restriction' choices for departure. no departure procedure means you will take vectors weithin that 30 nm. For arrival the STAR waypoints need to be in the plan also. You have the option after accepting the approach runway assignment of either taking the vectors to follow or to navigate from that point on your own. For runway specific SIDs or STARs just include common waypoints. If your FMC can import a p[lan this will help you keep RC and your FMC in sync. I don't use vRoute but a payware planner that expands terminal procedures into individual waypoints and can export in FS format for RC and several FMC proprietary formats. It uses the Navigraph FMC database as do many FMCs. A Navigraph subscription allows as many different format downloads as you require at no additional cost for the same period. Whenever RC gives you a resume own navigation instruction that is from your present position direct to the next filed waypoint. Here is a tip sheet I wrote up for FSBuild and for certain points other planners as well that expand terminal procedures into individual waypoints. FMC syncing tips are included; --------------- FSB tips: 1. Include this line in FSbuild.cfg:NAVCHKDUPDIST=100This decreases the chance of using the wrong duplicate named local (to the airport) waypiont from a nearby airport. Local waypoint names are not exclusive. It decreases the database search when it is named in the route to within a 100 nm radius of your airport. You will find these in terminal procedures such as "D" number something within a SID or STAR to define a merge or turning point. 2. When doing a Auto Generate (Route) be sure the SR (Stored Route) button next to it is "up" that is not highlighted. Auto Generate will use a stored route if found by default and most are out of date with old waypoints and terminal procedures. Having Stored Routes off forces it to search a path with fresh data. (Now off by default in version 2.4.) **REVISED 6/16/11** 3. FS Build database updates will be exclusively released through navigraph.com. It should be part of the FMC data line. For those not familiar with Navigraph each subscription term (cycle) includes multiple format downloads at no additional cost. This is very convenient for aligning FMC/navigation equipment databases with the flightplanner so among other things ATC data and your nav equipment data should match as you send a plan to ATC and then load it including terminal procedures into your FMC. The 2.4 upgrade includes the thirteenth cycle of 2010. The FSB upgrade is free to 2.x version users and is available via your order history on simmarket.com. 4. Where an airport uses specific runways for different terminal procedures select the runway using an estimate based on weather and if the runway fits your aircraft requirements before doing the Auto Generate. This helps select the correct SID and STAR for the runway and direction of departure and arrival. 5. After the Auto Generate and/or first build look at the map created to spot any obvious errors. In the route grid look for any sudden non-sensible changes in direction or extremely long legs not in the correct direction creating a zig-zag in the map. (See item 6 following to correct). 6. Be aware there is an option you can set for each session titled "Build Route from Grid Table". It does not stick between sessions. This lets you build from an edited route grid that you may have modified without recreating the table with the same error on your next build/export. For example you might wish to drop an errant waypoint when proofing the map and rebuilding. 7. Sometimes the name of a procedure (SID/STAR) does not match the name exactly in a published route and the procedure will not expand into its plan waypoints in the grid table. You can click on the arrow in the SID/STAR box to see what close name is in the FSB database. (Another reason to keep up with AIRACS.) For example KMSP has a current real such as this one: http://flightaware.c...DP/WAUKON+THREE but the FSB database only has UKN2. (It does have UKN3 now with the latest available AIRAC update). If so in the route line just change UKN3 to UKN2 so it will expand. Here's a real route from flightaware.com for KMSP to KMDW: KMSP UKN3 DBQ CVA MOTIF3 KMDW that can be pasted into the FSB route line. If UKN3 or MOTIF3 does not expand in the route grid to individual way points look in the upper part of FSB in the airport section dropping down the SID or STAR box to get the available version and substitute that label in the route line and rebuild. Note that the SID and STAR dropdowns may follow the chosen runway in certain areas. 8. Sometimes it takes a second build to get the map to move and/or magnify. The mouse scroll wheel lets you magnify. Just click on the portion of the map you want to center on and scroll to magnify. 9. If you click on a line in the route grid table to highlight it, the waypoint on the map will turn red. This is useful for finding errant waypoints that cause an error in the path. That line can then be edited or deleted and a rebuild accomplished with the build option to build from the route grid table. 10. If you are running a weather program such as active sky, first build the route in FSB exporting to FS9 using an anticipated cruise altitude and specify the nearest aircraft profile. In AS get the weather you wish to use. (I always get the weather for the zulu time of the departure in FS since time of day affects weather characteristics). Import the plan into AS via the new route button, check the altitude and choose an appropriate true airspeed in knots (this is your no wind ground speed). Process the route. When it is finished click the button to print a hard copy of all. Use this AS navlog for METAR data at both ends and winds aloft and temperature aloft that can be used for FMC data. (You'll also get your estimated average wind at your specified altitude - handy for FMC data.) Leave AS running. Now go back to FSB and your chosen aircraft profile. Enter the surface temperature from your departure METAR, then estimated total taxi time, hold time, and extra time (sometimes called discretionary fuel). Now turn on again your FS9 export along with any FMC export you might use. Rebuild and you'll see the messages regarding the export completion. On the route selection on the left which brings up your route window select the navlog tab and click the .pdf to save the navlog in a file or the print button to get a hard copy so you can easily reference the estimated fuel and other data. This estimated fuel has now taken into account your winds aloft data - no need to enter it in FSB. Now that you have the hard copy and exported your route, you can first optionally save the plan by selecting flightplan window, then clicking the category tab, then select user category. Now click file, save from the menu bar. The name you might want to embellish. Click Save Route To User Flight Plans. For another session, you can recall this working plan and just build. 11. If you are using an aircraft with nav equipment that has its own terminal data procedures in its nav equipment (think FMC) you might wish to use step 6 above to take out the waypoints of the terminal procedures keeping just the transition points and build and export with just them. This easily in most cases lets you select the SID and STAR assigned by ATC on your nav equipment by providing a clean legs list in your nav equipment. If you need ATC to monitor the waypoints of the terminal procedure than just export all. To keep ATC and you nav equipment in sync, you might consider importing the full plan into your nav equipment and not using your nav equipment procedure database. This is kind of long but through experience I've described some tricks I've used watching out for any pitfalls. Be sure to check the FSBuild forum for updates.

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Arhur, I asked the same question recently. Here is a link to that post. http://forum.avsim.n...__fromsearch__1 Jim
Thanks for your suggestions Jim! I read about how you could descend on your own via the PD option in RC. But that dosent really allow the FMC to fly the descent by itself as far as i got it? I mean you'd have to manually adjust the speed and the vertical speed in order to reach the assigned altitude at an appropriote time. And in my case, like i described, i never had an option to chose PD, ATC just told me that he wanted me to descned RIGHT NOW or something like that. And also, my initial post has an additional question regarding flying a STAR. Ye its all up there :) Anyway im going to try the PD option at my next descent, so thanks for your help :) Cheers - Arhur

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For arrival the STAR waypoints need to be in the plan also. You have the option after accepting the approach runway assignment of either taking the vectors to follow or to navigate from that point on your own. For runway specific SIDs or STARs just include common waypoints. If your FMC can import a p[lan this will help you keep RC and your FMC in sync. I don't use vRoute but a payware planner that expands terminal procedures into individual waypoints and can export in FS format for RC and several FMC proprietary formats. It uses the Navigraph FMC database as do many FMCs. A Navigraph subscription allows as many different format downloads as you require at no additional cost for the same period.
So as i suspected it seems ive wasted the 23 euros on vroute premium :/

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Vroute has its uses. I don't know if it expands waypoints on export to the FS formats that RC can use. It appears more geared to on-line ATC according to its description. Some uses enter its route data into another planner. I looked at the sample flight card: http://www.vroute.ne..._2008-11-15.pdfand then looked at the current BARRET4 STAR: http://flightaware.c.../BARET+FOUR/pdf I placed the route into FSBuild and it expanded the STAR: which would be exported (you can delete waypoints from this grid before exporting in FSB). If vRoute's export contains these then you are OK. I think it has been stated that vRoute does not do this. I think that is because it is geared to on-line user where a controller knows the terminal procedure for monitoring you on his scope. You can enter waypoints from the flightcard and airport charts into the FS planner and save that .pln for RC to use. The problem is the currency of FS's waypoint database. is a navlog from FSB. (The fuel planning and headings are corrected from the last weather snapshot I downloaded from Active Sky.) So you can use vRoute to get the route being used by VATSIM sources or whatever and the airport charts according to the product description. The example I used for flights starting in or terminating in the US FAA filed routes and FAA charts I get from flightware.com. vRoute has international scope which is an advantage. European airport charts I get from Eurocontrol (free registration).: http://ead-website.ead-it.com/publicuser/public/pu/login.jsp or just for UK charts: http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=165&Itemid=3.html which requires no registration. There are some other flight planners including one freeware one but I don't know about currency. (I did a quick plan in the B757-200 and I did not check fuel and weight limitations). Here's the FS9 format of that plan; [flightplan]title=KBOS to KSANdescription=KBOS, KSANtype=IFRroutetype=3cruising_altitude=34000departure_id=KBOS, N42* 21.46', W071* 00.23',+000020.00departure_position=22Rdestination_id=KSAN, N32* 44.00', W117* 11.22',+000017.00departure_name=GEN_EDWARD_LAWRENCE_LOGAN_INTLdestination_name=SAN_DIEGO_INTERNATIONALwaypoint.0=KBOS, A, N42* 21.46', W071* 00.23', +000000.00,waypoint.1=MHT, V, N42* 52.06', W071* 22.10', +000000.00,waypoint.2=HANAA, I, N43* 11.52', W073* 36.46', +000000.00,waypoint.3=SAEZE, I, N43* 19.32', W076* 10.35', +000000.00,waypoint.4=YXU, V, N43* 02.16', W081* 08.56', +000000.00, J547waypoint.5=KITOK, I, N43* 01.23', W081* 55.18', +000000.00, J547waypoint.6=FNT, V, N42* 58.00', W083* 44.49', +000000.00, J547waypoint.7=DEWIT, I, N42* 48.09', W084* 33.00', +000000.00, J547waypoint.8=HASTE, I, N42* 40.15', W085* 10.02', +000000.00, J547waypoint.9=PMM, V, N42* 27.57', W086* 06.17', +000000.00,waypoint.10=KP66G, I, N41* 00.00', W094* 00.00', +000000.00,waypoint.11=KD42Q, I, N37* 00.00', W110* 00.00', +000000.00,waypoint.12=EED, V, N34* 45.57', W114* 28.26', +000000.00,waypoint.13=SHADI, I, N33* 37.14', W115* 45.41', +000000.00,waypoint.14=SALTN, I, N33* 22.45', W116* 10.42', +000000.00,waypoint.15=KARRO, I, N33* 15.53', W116* 22.27', +000000.00,waypoint.16=IFEHI, I, N32* 48.04', W116* 37.47', +000000.00,waypoint.17=BARET, I, N32* 46.26', W116* 40.38', +000000.00,waypoint.18=IFHEJ, I, N32* 39.35', W116* 53.18', +000000.00,waypoint.19=SWATT, I, N32* 40.45', W116* 57.58', +000000.00,waypoint.20=KSAN, A, N32* 44.00', W117* 11.22', +000000.00,I didn't tell fsbuild to export waypoint altitudes.

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