I'm SO GLAD expained this with kindness, James.. So so thank you..I just wanna know it is purposed act by EEC or dev team missed changing idle value when A/T enters idle..Of course if it is not normal, wish would be fixed.. I don't want blame anyone in this forum with enthusiasm for PMDG products, wish productive, healthy discussion. And okay, I'll try to catch it from now - actually we can fly without joystick for these complext planes.. I'll check it out. Thank you again, James. And many others replied in spite of awful mess of English text..

I couldn't test many times without joystick ungluged, but seems it's rather not important because I will never fly without joystick.If this is a joystic or FSUIPC problem, it seems right PMDG have to fix their fleet. (I'm using Sidewinder Precision 2) Despite after hotfix 4, this problem still remains..

I got the video now. The first part of video shows this problem. At 44.4% N1, I pressed F1 key to reduce thrust. (don't care about VNAV path, it doesn't affect for this issue.)At this point, the throttle lever on the joystick doesn't matter if it is at idle or full position. Wherever lever positioned, this happens from time to time.If it is EEC intended, it returns to it's previous potision(in this case 44%) but it drops. After this, N1 smoothly decreases as normal. The second part is normal status. N1 gradually decreases as altitude is being lowered. Hope this is helpful for dev team. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdJjBdlun84&feature=player_detailpage

I actually asked this question when the Ngx was released and one of the dev team members told me that due to FSX limitations, te only way to get accurate flight/approach idles was to physically have the thrust levers move in FSX. In real life, the plane does it electronically without moving the thrust levers, but in FSX, the only way to achieve these different idles is to move the thrust levers. That's why when you press f1, FSX makes the levers go to idle, but the Ngx, then commands flight/approach idle again by moving the throttles back up.

I actually asked this question when the Ngx was released and one of the dev team members told me that due to FSX limitations, te only way to get accurate flight/approach idles was to physically have the thrust levers move in FSX. In real life, the plane does it electronically without moving the thrust levers, but in FSX, the only way to achieve these different idles is to move the thrust levers. That's why when you press f1, FSX makes the levers go to idle, but the Ngx, then commands flight/approach idle again by moving the throttles back up.

Thank you for your kind answer.. now it is clear it's limitation of FSX like many other stuff.But either if dev team knows this proble before they release or even they notices after people asks after release, it is them who can fix this. I know there are many limitations but I think this is different. Because, it does not *ALWAYS* happens.Mostly, N1 decreases with altitude very well. It does not make sense if it is really related to FSX limitation.Anyway I thank you again and I think I should set option to HOLD/ARM only and use throttle..(There is no reason for this option if it is limited by FSX code.) (Edit : changed sentences may seems irritable.)

Thank you for your kind answer.. now it is clear it's limitation of FSX like many other stuff.But either if dev team knows this proble before they release or even they notices after people asks after release, it is them who can fix this. I know there are many limitations but I think this is different. Because, it does not *ALWAYS* happens.Mostly, N1 decreases with altitude very well. It does not make sense if it is really related to FSX limitation.Anyway I thank you again and I think I should set option to HOLD/ARM only and use throttle..(There is no reason for this option if it is limited by FSX code.) (Edit : changed sentences may seems irritable.)

Your welcome, but I think you misunderstood me:). It isn't a bug, it is the only way that pmdg could simulate the different "idles" the EEC controls. For example, when on approach, after you lower the gear, approach idle becomes active. Try it, have the thrust on idle and then lower the gear, the idle thrust will now be at a minimum of about 40%. In real life, I'm pretty sure the thrust levers don't have to move to attain this, but in FSX, the only way to achieve this approach idle is to physically have the aircraft move the levers forward. Since you are still within the FSX environment, though, when you press f1 this sends a command to FSX to retard the levers, but since the plane is supposed to be in approach idle, and since it is limited in the sense that the thrust levers actually have to be moved to be at this approach idle, the plane will move the levers forward again to re-achieve approach idle. I hope I explained myself better :).Edit:I just saw your video. Yes, the NGx also changes idle thrust based on altitude, but pressing f1 doesn't result in the aircraft pushing the thrust levers forward again because this is something that is supported in FSX I assume since the default planes have higher n1's as altitude increases and lower n1's as altitude decreases also. Also, at the beginning of the video , when the n1 was at about 42 and I assume you pressed f1 and the n1 lowered to about 40, this is due to your physical hardware sometimes. For example, my joystick has this small quirk that, for example, I'm taxiing on the ground and bring the throttle to idle, it doesn't go all the way to idle (it goes to about 2-3 n1 greater than idle) and if I press f1, it goes to complete idle. So if what I remember about the Ngx's simulation of different idles, and other possible reasons, I'm pretty confident that what you see is not a bug at all.

Think the point is still being misunderstood by some...what he is saying his that he understands that the eec commands different idle n1 values depending on stage of flight, and that also the limitations with fsx means pmdg actually need to apply a throttle setting above idle in order to simulate this. What the issue is, is that sometimes whatever this commanded idle EEC is, it actually should sometimes be a lower value and the sim isn't actually reducing to this lower value unless you either press f1 or move our throttle levers forward and back to idle again. So say idle gets commanded and your n1 at that particular is 44 your physical throttle is set at idle and you see it reduce to 44 as you descend you move your throttle forward and back, or press f1 you see n1 reduce to 40 and here you would expect to see it go back to 44 again but actually it happily remains at 40 which shows that it should have reduced to a lower idle but didn't.

Think the point is still being misunderstood by some...what he is saying his that he understands that the eec commands different idle n1 values depending on stage of flight, and that also the limitations with fsx means pmdg actually need to apply a throttle setting above idle in order to simulate this. What the issue is, is that sometimes whatever this commanded idle EEC is, it actually should sometimes be a lower value and the sim isn't actually reducing to this lower value unless you either press f1 or move our throttle levers forward and back to idle again. So say idle gets commanded and your n1 at that particular is 44 your physical throttle is set at idle and you see it reduce to 44 as you descend you move your throttle forward and back, or press f1 you see n1 reduce to 40 and here you would expect to see it go back to 44 again but actually it happily remains at 40 which shows that it should have reduced to a lower idle but didn't.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I get what the OP means now. If this indeed is happening, then maybe this is a bug. I cant say for sure as I haven't tried this myself, and the only thing similar to this that happens to me is when I'm taxiing and my joystick idle is always 2-3 more than the idle acquired by pressing f1.

I owe you James.. Again, I have tested thrust lever idle, full forward, 50~70%(which stays when I plugged out joystick). HARDWARE doesn't matters. I'm spending plenty of time testing and recording abnormal situations of NGX.There's no reason to do this if I don't like PMDG product. Despite many problems, I only fly with NGX since it released. I usually don't send a support ticket because want to share not even problems but also technical knowledges, too.All I hope is someone in dev team posts a single sentence it's bug or limitations, or will test that issue.. but they still didn't.I know this forum is user stage so I'll send a ticket with another big issue as soon as I get the ACTUAL video. (you know, sudden roll at flare altitude) Thank you guys.. I'm tired of beta testing with RTM version of product.. need some rest.