I'm not trying to start a fight here, but I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. I've noticed over on Ebay that there have been some flight sim add-ons and some freeware for sale in their listings, and I was under the impression that you couldn't sell your addon aircraft etc. becuase it would be like sharing your pin#. I don't know, what do you think?I'm just curious, don't go flaming me or anyone over this one.

Hi Scott,if you bought a commercial product, you are free to resell it. If the product was downloaded, things get a bit more complicated, because in effect you are selling a copy of your original product.In the case of freeware it's different. Due to the lack of consideration (I'm talking contract terms here, not manners ;)), the author retains rights of ownership as far as permissible by applicable laws, in addition to copyright protection. Therefore, you may not resell a freeware product without the author's express permission.Cheers,Gosta.http://www.hifisim.com/images/as2betateam.jpg

Hi, my two cents...- I

I'll preface this by saying I love the tagline in your siggy... I was a big fan of the movie "The Right Stuff"... I'm not sure why you were worried about being flamed.... Had you worded your question to something like "Is it true I can sell your freeware and there's nuthin' you can do about it?", that might have brought some flaming :)Generally, it isn't right morally and often isn't right legally for someone to sell your freeware on ebay. Freeware isn't the same as "Public Domain". Quite often, authors release freeware on their way to bigger and better things... But they claim rights to what they do (and their rights are legally protected in most cases) as it may serve as the foundation of future work, or simply because they prefer to release it that way.Do authors ever fight for their rights? I suspect they do, because ebay seems pretty good about pulling questionable titles. If it were one of my programs, I'd likely let it pass unless the seller was being a real idiot. Most sellers realize that freeware authors don't have the time and resources to fight this, but many of us band together when there's a real idiot out there with a compilation or website which is focussed on profiting from others work. The reality is we live in an international community, and some people can work/sell from locations that are virtually the "Wild West" when it comes to the rule of law and respect for others. Come to think of it, my own country seems like that sometimes :) As an author I don't like it, but it's the risk I take for being able to share my work with others and build new friendships in the process. I think most freeware authors consider themselves highly compensated in this regard--I know I place more value on a lifelong friend than an easily blown 100 bucks :)-John

It's not only unethical. It's agianst EBAY policy...

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/recordable.html

:-outta

http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/User_files/3e72a43942b48d2b.jpg

There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".- unknown

"My daddy gives me up, to fight for you"- a US Military Members Child

John:>>Most sellers realize that freeware authors don't have the time and>>resources to fight this, but many of us band together when there's >>a real idiot out there with a compilation or website which is >>focussed on profiting from others work. My own real beef about compilations is those that are sold at a high enough price that the buyer doesn't realise he's buying a CD of freeware and / or shareware. I've had people contact me for a registration key for Shareware that they "bought retail" and get really nasty when I point out that they didn't.Richard

OK, I appreciate your input here. But let's twist this a little further. I saw a payware title, for 2004 on Ebay, it was a cd, but it also comes as a downloadable file direct from the developer. I don't see developers making a distinction between a physical cd and a registration key.For example, (hypothetical) I download a plane package. I pay my money and get a key. I also purchase another plane and get the cd. Why is it that it's ok to sell the cd and not the key if I'm not going to use the product again (because of compatibility issues for example)?I don't think developers would make a distinction. Maybe I'm wrong. I do think, however, that there should be some understood rule among all FS vendors (pipe dream) about whether or not you "own" a product you bought, or if you are merely purchasing the rights for its use. If their answer is the latter, then I'll take the CD every time. The problem we run into is that not everyone makes a cd available... And some even require you to "activate" your CD through the web.What are my rights as the end user? And where do my rights as the owner of a product end and the limiting powers of the developer begin. I'm very uncomfortable with the grey area here.What do you think?

Well, it also depends where you download it from. In the US One of Bill Clinton's last signings was Al Gore's "Electronic Piracy" act. Under that, not only can a vendor forbid you from reselling downloaded software even if you don't keep a copy, they can also forbid you from reselling physical media software, and they can EVEN make you buy a new license to move your software onto a new computer or even if you upgrade your existing software.In Europe, the EU rules give the buyer a few more rights.Richard

Sorry, that should have read ".... they can EVEN make you buy a new license to move your software onto a new computer or even if you upgrade your existing HARDware"Of course you have to buy a new license if you buy an upgraded version of the software.Richard

Hi Scott,>What are my rights as the end user? And where do my rights as the owner of a product end and the limiting powers of the developer begin. I'm very uncomfortable with the grey area here.http://www.hifisim.com/images/as2betateam.jpg

There's two issues here.1. Compiling & selling freewareI'm sure illegal - pretty much everywhere, as well as waaaay unethical. Authors spend months of blood sweat & tears creating fantastic freeware offerings for the flightsim comunity. I cannot imagine any precedent that would justify someone other than the author or their appointed agent selling this.2. Reselling payware - I'd have to go with Uwer. Most T&C's forbid resale of software. This is based on the premise that we're a bunch of pirates & guilty until proven innocent. Rubbish.Not only unenforceable in civilised countries but; well, waaay unethical. I haven't done it simply because the $$$ involved arent worth the effort, but I would certainly have no problem at all with selling off a downloadable addon I purchased. A recent purchase springs to mind ...but I wouldnt resell it because I would feel guilty about selling a sub standard product to someone.Freeware - downloaders, get real.Payware, authors, get real.LPXO

The nature of the transaction rather dictates the nature of the re-sale I'd say. If you have downloaded freeware then of course it's utterly wrong to sell it - however, even then there is a grey area of compensation for `time and trouble` versus `profit`. If I download a large package of freeware on my fast broadband link, burn it to a CD and then send it to my friend who has only a puny dial-up modem and he wishes to reimburse me my expense by sending me a couple of quid or a fresh CD-R then I have no problem with that, nor does any legislation, US or EU. And no readme on any download can alter that inalienable right, or else the person who does NOT receive the software - because it is only available through a means he/she has no access to - MIGHT, just might have grounds to sue the provider on the basis of discrimination legislation. Sauce for the goose, and all that. But if I were to download that same piece of software and burn it onto a multitude of CD's and make it available via a website for a fee, with or without batching it with other software, that makes me a pirate. Plain and simple.Allcott

Great points to be sure. But, again, what I am hearing is that in some of your opinions, it is not unethical to resell something you are not going to use, even if it's a downloadable package.I personally would not do that, personal convictions I guess, but maybe if I found myself in a position where I felt the product I bought was clearly inferior and I was not going to use it no matter what, I think I would sell the thing at a reduced price to someone else and remove it from my machine. (I don't curretnly own anything that reflects this statement!)And I don't ask this because I'm in this dilema now; but, in the future, I'd like to know if I'm in the right if I should choose to do this. Do I have to get permission from the author, or is it MY property to do with as I wish?I'm in the dead middle of the USA if anyone needs this information to clear this up.

I think in the US in general, software vendors sell a license to use copyrighted works. I think the normal situation is that any rights conferred in a license are transferrable to 3rd parties, unless there are specific terms in the EULA to the contrary.In addition to contract law of licenses, there is copyright law to contend with. In most cases a specific work may be sold, but unless you qualify as a library, you may not lend. There is a general exception provided for so-called "fair use". Duplication of a work or compilation of works for resale would probably not be considered as a "fair use".Unfortunately, "fair use" doctrines have come under attack due to the recent "Digital Millenium Copyright Act" which provides penalties for any violation of "digital rights management" features, including circumvention or reverse engineering. This seems to fly in the face of US court precedence, such as the "Sony Betamax" decision, which said that recording a copyrighted television broadcast for later viewing was a "fair use". This is how the MPAA has been going after folks posting deCSS software.All legal considerations aside, it is discouraging to see people trying to make a buck off of someone else's work in this hobby.scott s..