The big VOR topic

[meshman 109]

P.S. I am looking forward to using NDB in Flight: I am sure a plane will come that makes use of it, otherwise MS wouldn't have added NDB's.

 

You can simulate that now using a VOR. Use the second radio and gauge. Turn off the DME if you want. Then just go out and fly knowing there's a radio signal out there that can help you figure out where you are, so that you can get to where you want to be.

 

Sorry for any non-technical terms, I'd debugging some spaghetti code that I wrote and I think my brain needs an APU...

[LHookins 3,113]

What is NDB?

 

Non Directional Beacon, like a normal AM radio station. You have an instrument with a single needle that points to the NDB you have tuned. They're on the map and charts as magenta dots with "measles" around them.

 

Hook

[Guest]

I'll help if needed.. :)

 

Like you did with VOR! I'll always remember you as one of the guys who helped me to learn all about VOR! Yes, people, without this man this topic wouldn't be here! (Well, not started by me, anyway...)

 

Jeroen (best of three). Sorry.

 

And touche.

 

LOL I am used to seeing my name spelled the wrong way, so it isn't a big deal.

 

I'm sure the lack of an "easy-mode" moving-map GPS is one factor. It's hard to motivate yourself to learn something challenging when there's an easier way staring you right in the face.

 

Exactly. I was interested in VOR and navigation but it was hard to get and since there was an easy way out... I never had the need to 'get it'. Flight forced me to learn about VOR because it was the only way to get anywhere. Well, unless you constantly use the ingame map but 1. that feels like cheating and 2. that doesn't work in jobs (for which I disabled the markers).

 

The funny thing is that the last few days, specially now I posted a few times already that I could never get it, I wonder WHY I didn't get it, because... it's so simple and logical once you know how it works...!

[jcomm 5,992]

Jeroen,

 

not only can I write it, but I can spell it too, thx to a friendd, very active user pf Aerowinx PS1 - Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers... Even more difficult to spell pronnounce :-)

 

I had the chnace to have his visit here in Lisbon for more than one time (that Jeroen loves Portugal :-) ) and had great moments talking about that also great sim, soon (I hope) to get to it's PS-X version :-)

 

It's funny how your name is actually pronnounced in Dutch :-)

 

 

LOL I am used to seeing my name spelled the wrong way, so it isn't a big deal

[Guest]

Right, let's get on with the show. Something more advanced now. (It is to me, anyway.)

 

Optimal intercepting of VOR radials

 

Imagine you are flying somewhere and suddenly (future) ATC tells you to intercept the 180 radial inbound from a specific VOR. You check your position and you see you are somewhere on radial 145, flying north. You set the OBS to the reciprocal of the 180 radial and start intercepting the radial, following the needle left. Easy. Only er... at what angle should you fly towards the VOR...? You don't want to overshoot the radial and end up on the other side before you intercepted it.

 

Imagine you are flying somewhere and suddenly (future) ATC tells you to intercept the 180 radial inbound from a specific VOR. You check your position and you see you are somewhere on radial 310, flying west. Bummer... You can't intercept the 180 radials inbound from the north, so how do you get to the good side of the VOR and how and where and when should you turn to intercept that freakin' radial...???

 

Here's how: you use sectors.

 

Hold on tight, this may seem complicated, but 1. it isn't and 2. once you know how to do it I guarantee you you only want to intercept radials from the 'wrong' side of the VOR because it's fun! What follows now is some text to explain it all but at the bottom of the post I will add a jpg that I created on which you can find all the information you need for easy reference. Heck, you even might want to try to skip the following text and only use that jpg.

 

The fact that the Maule and RV-6A have two VOR gauges is very nice for this method. Set your first VOR to the radial you need to intercept (might be the radial or the reciprocal). For this example I'll keep it simple: I want to intercept the 360 radial inbound. Use your second VOR to figure out on which radial you are now (turn the OBS until the CDI is centered and FROM shows). Now calculate the difference between the radial you need to intercept and the radial you are on.

 

Is the difference less then 30 degrees (left or right)?

You are in sector 1, on the FROM side of the radial. Set the OBS to the reciprocal (TO activated) of the radial and intercept the radial inbound at an angle of 45 degrees (which in this example should be 315 or 045 depending on which side of the radial you are)

 

Is the difference between 30 degrees and 60 degrees (left or right)?

You are in sector 2, on the FROM side of the radial. Set the OBS to the reciprocal of the radial (TO activated) and fly towards the radial at an angle of 90 degrees (which in this example should be 270 or 090 depending on which side of the radial you are). After a while check your position again (and this is why it's nice having two VORs on the plane!): as soon as you have entered sector 1 (the difference is less then 30 degrees) act like I explained in sector 1.

 

Is the difference between 60 degrees and 90 degrees (left or right)?

You are in sector 3, still on the FROM side of the radial. Set the OBS for reference to the radial (FROM activated) and fly the heading of the radial (so parallel to it!) for 2 minutes. After that check your position again. Still in sector 3? Repeat the previous step. You are in sector 2? Follow the sector 2 steps. Already in sector 1? Follow the sector 1 steps.

 

Is the difference between 90 and 180 (left or right)?

You are in sector 4 which is the complete TO side of the radial. Set the OBS for reference to the radial (TO activated) and fly the heading of the radial (so parallel to it!) until TO goes to FROM: you have passed the line of ambiguity and are on the FROM side now, in sector 3. Keep on flying the heading of the radial (so parallel to it!) for 3 minutes. After that check your position again. Still in sector 3? Repeat the previous step. You are in sector 2? Follow the sector 2 steps. Already in sector 1? Follow the sector 1 steps.

 

That's it. Trust me, once you get it, it's easy and fun.

 

Here is the jpg that shows everything you need to know

In the example I used the 360 radial to keep it easy. If you for instance have to intercept the 47 radial, simply rotate the entire circle (in your mind ) so the 'radial' in this picture overlaps the 47 radial. You will see the line of ambiguity on radials 317 and 137. And so on. For everyone's (and certainly my own) convenience I also added a list of radials and reciprocals: always handy when you have no calculator at hand. (For completeness sake: that list with radials and reciprocals works both ways: if the radial is 10, then the reciprocal is 190. If the radial is 190 then the reciprocal is 10... Etc. Obvious, but well...)

 

P.S. I suppose the instructions for intercepting a radial outbound, which I also added, are pretty self explanatory.

If you don't get it, just ask. If I made a mistake, just say so!

 

EDIT

At the risk of making things only more complicated... Here is an example of a plane that's flying somewhere around radial 170 with a heading of something like 345 when the pilots is instructed to intercept the 047 radial inbound. I laid the VOR sector image over a VOR compass so it matches the 047 radial. You can see where the sectors are now and also where the line of ambiguity is (where TO goes to FROM). Compare how the pilot flies (the red line) and intercepts the radial with the instructions above and you should (hopefully) get it. Obviously the distance to the VOR varies and also how 'deep' you fly 'into' the various sectors. This is just an example. To make it er... easier.

 

[matt_gold 1]

Praise is better late than never....

Thank you a million times for this. I am really getting the hang of it now, and like I've said, I enjoy navigating as much as flying.

Of course, my wife doesn't get it at all. She's all about Tetris on her iPad....she watches me and basically sees a cockpit with a cloud cover outside, looking totally stationary, and a big grin on my face.

She just says "BORING!" and leaves the room. Meanwhile I'm in heaven! LOL

[Great Ozzie 101]

If you for instance have to intercept the 47 radial

 

"Indianapolis Center, Cherokee 4219Y... unable" :Tounge:

 

not only can I write it, but I can spell it too, thx to a friendd

 

"ha ha ha... you funny guy Dr. Jones.... you funny guy" :LMAO:

[n4gix 4,955]

Thank you, you're very welcome! I can imagine the amount of information that's been gathered (if that's the right word...) in this topic during the last few days may have become a bit too much... so feel free to ask for help if you are having problems with something. As you may have noticed I like to talk about all this...

 

Since this has been such an excellent series, I've now used my new "Magic Powers" to create an 8 part series in the Flight - Early Tutorials section. Jeroen is credited with all but Part 5, which is RoboRay's excellent contribution.

 

Please feel free from now on to simply add new "Parts" yourselves by using the same Title "VOR Navigation Part n" and the Tags (flight,vor,navigation). I would ask though that you remove the "smilie icons" from the tutorial posts however to keep the appearance consistent.

[enamel 4]

A user had made a video with the basics of VOR navigation, but for the life of me I can't find it.

 

You can also check out some videos made with FSX, the principals are the same.

 

If I get a wild hair I will make some videos that follow the tutorials that were created from this topic.

[Great Ozzie 101]

I personally am really struggling to understand Vor navigation

 

Megs...

 

If you can get onto the AVSIM Teamspeak (http://forum.avsim.n...t-to-teamspeak/ AVSIM Hangar Talk Channel) I'll be on for the next hour or so and will try to answer any questions.

 

-Rob

[Guest]

Since this has been such an excellent series, I've now used my new "Magic Powers" to create an 8 part series in the Flight - Early Tutorials section. Jeroen is credited with all but Part 5, which is RoboRay's excellent contribution.

 

Please feel free from now on to simply add new "Parts" yourselves by using the same Title "VOR Navigation Part n" and the Tags (flight,vor,navigation). I would ask though that you remove the "smilie icons" from the tutorial posts however to keep the appearance consistent.

 

Cool! I like your Magic Powers. If I will make a new tutorial I will remove the smilies. I see the first tutorial still has a few but I can't edit those tutorials... Which btw also is a reason why I post them in this topic: here I can edit mistakes etc. So if I am ever going to make another tutorial, I will post it here first (if it's about VOR of course) and when it's really done and no one has remarks about it, I'll copy it to the tutorial section. If that's alright...

 

I personally am really struggling to understand Vor navigation, I have read these posts and it's becoming confusing some videos would be great to show in real flight how it works, to both you guys j van e etc etc well done. Your time and effort is valuable.

 

Did you check out the video in the openings post? As enamel already said every FSX video about VOR will work for Flight as well. In fact, ANY resource you will find will be useful because using VOR is the same in Flight as it is in FSX or any other sim or in the real world.

 

Perhaps you've already spoken with Ozzie, but if not, it might be an idea to simply start from the beginning and say where things go wrong. Is it setting the radio's or using the OBS or...? Simply say where you are beginning to wonder what to do and we'll take it step by step. I've been where you are (when it comes to VOR, that is...) and if I can 'get it', everyone can, so don't despair.

[enamel 4]

Found the video I was thinking of:

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/368527-msflight-vor-ils-introductory-for-beginners/

[n4gix 4,955]

Cool! I like your Magic Powers. If I will make a new tutorial I will remove the smilies. I see the first tutorial still has a few but I can't edit those tutorials... Which btw also is a reason why I post them in this topic: here I can edit mistakes etc. So if I am ever going to make another tutorial, I will post it here first (if it's about VOR of course) and when it's really done and no one has remarks about it, I'll copy it to the tutorial section. If that's alright...

 

I'll (re)edit Part 1 to take care of that myself. Yes, even with the limited "Edit" time window, I agree that it would be best to post anything new in this thread, or even a new thread for that matter, then only copy/paste to a new Tutorial Page when satisfied.

 

The whole "Tutorial" module is new, and hopefully over time we'll be able to allow contributors the ability to "Edit" their own contributions. I'd like the ability to create new Topical categories on my own and not have to rely on Tom to do it for me. I fear that over time there will be so many of them that it'll get confusing! For example, since there are currently eight Parts to "VOR Navigation" those really deserve to be in their own Sub-Category.

[tranglos 0]

Thank you, Jeroen and others for these fantastic tutorials. I had tried the VOR lessons in FSX, but the CFI there is far too impatient. Tried reading the instructions at navfltsm too (server seems down at the moment), but Jeroen's approach is the first that has worked for me - the instructions, screenshots and all.

 

Now, a question. What is a proper procedure for intercepting a radial? I mean in terms of airspeed, roll, or the time to complete the maneuver? It seems I always end up a few degrees off, enough to spoil the navigation.

 

It doesn't help that on my 22" screen, at default zoom the 3D dials are too small to tell how well the needle is aligned. In FSX the 2D view makes it easier to get a more precise reading, but Flight does not have that. The principle of finding an intersection via VOR works fine for me, I just can't make my flying precise enough. I'll appreciate any hints!

[FiLooo 0]

at default zoom the 3D dials are too small to tell how well the needle is aligned. In FSX the 2D view makes it easier to get a more precise reading, but Flight does not have that.

HeLLo

I have the same difficulty, I would like a 2D cockpit but I"m afraid it should ruin the smoothness of the sim.

@@++