Hi,

 

Unlike some of the freeze issues listed in this forum, a friend I am helping is not only getting an FSX freeze issue (FSX abruptly halts), but I can no longer get control of the system by performing a CTL-ALT-DEL action. Everything is locked up.

 

My only recourse is to do a hardware reset.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Bill Clark

My only recourse is to do a hardware reset.

Any suggestions?

 

There are many causes for systems to freeze while running an application. Overheating is just one thing. Wrong CPU voltages are another. You need to check your Event Viewer and let us know what is causing the issue. You can get to the Event Viewer by clicking on the Start button in the lower left corner, then type Event Viewer in the search box, then look up in the menu and click on Event Viewer. Once open, on the left side, click on Custom Views then Administrative Events. In the middle column of the Event Viewer you will see a list of Events with various warning levels. Some are just warnings and many others are errors that need correcting. If you do not see details of the event below each event, look over in the right column called Actions. Look down to 'view' and click on Preview Pane. Now you should see a preview of each event in the middle column. Look for the date and time that your system froze or FSX froze and provide us with the details. Look on the right column again and look down and click on the Event xxxx, Search. This should open up a menu and one menu item says "copy" and click on Copy Details of text. Now paste this information in your response here. Thanks.

 

Best regards,

Jim

Jim,

 

Ok, I will try your suggestion and forward to you......however, I did look at the Event Viewer, Application Log under Windows Logs and didn't see anything that jumped out at me.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion it is probably due to some sort of a hardware issue. I'm considering running one or all of the following programs to check out his system:

 

* HyperPI.exe

* OCCT.exe

* Mem86 (latest version)

 

Note - my friend's system is not overclocked, but mine is, so the above were tools I used to determine stability during the ovclocking phase I went through about a year ago.

 

So what are your thought about using these above tools? I will also collect the data you suggested in your response

 

Bill Clark

I did look at the Event Viewer, Application Log under Windows Logs and didn't see anything that jumped out at me.

 

Hi Bill,

The Administrative Events shows everything recent and ALL events that occurred. Not just application events. That's why I direct everyone to take a look there first. It will have everything that's in the Application Logs. In the Administrative Events, you can filter all Event 1000 crashes if you would like. But knowledge of all of the most recent events is most important.

 

I have had experience with Mem86 and that's it. I also used Prime95 and the Intel Burn Test V2. The funny thing though is the tests were almost always positive and nothing was found wrong with my overclocking, my memory or my CPU. But I did find things wrong with my CPU voltage settings and memory timings, frequency, and voltages. I fixed the settings and now have a very stable system. Here is the link to BIOS settings that should not be exceeded - http://www.techreaction.net/2011/01/04/3-step-overclocking-guide-%e2%80%93-sandy-bridge-v0-1beta/. You violate any of these voltages/timings and you're asking for problems. This guide also talks about stability testing and using OCCT. Memory settings are another major factor in FSX crashes. The timings, frequencies, and voltages in your BIOS must be the same as those shown in CPU-Z under the SPD tab. If you want to use the 1600MHz frequency, you'll have to set up your BIOS with the X.M.P. profile. One last thing is your Virtual Memory settings. FSX works best with System Managed Size for your Page or Virtual Memory files. So that's another thing you should check out. To get to those settings, click on the Start button, type Virtual Memory in the search bar and then look up in the menu and click on How do I change Virtual Memory settings.

 

Best regards,

Jim

Jim,

 

Yes, I have used Prime95 before...and I will take a look at the logs as per your procedure.

 

My friends system was put together by a small firm who has been supplying PC's for his regular business, however, my assumption is, his system has not been modified and the default BIOS settings are being used...but I will verify them as to meeting the standard settings.

 

BTW - he has an Intel MB and is running an i7-3930K 6 processor core (Hyper-threading is enabled giving him 12 cores)

 

The primary reason I want to use these tools is, not to overclock, but rather, have a reliable tool, besides FSX, so that if it turns out these tools can replicate a similar freeze, then his system builder can use the same tool to reproduce the freeze and determine what the issue is and render a fix.

 

I probably will not have access to his system until early next week!

 

Bill Clark

Hi Bill,

Well, it would be important, at least to me, to see the faulting module that caused his crash. I remember having a ntdl.dll (faulting module) crash sometime last year and my system froze up and my only option was to shut the system down and restart. I also had the Exception Error 0xc0000005 or a Memory Access Violation which is common with the wrong configuration of memory or too many system resources placed on FSX. As I recall I had my memory frequency set at Auto and I manually changed it to 1333MHz and the problem went away. If you do get to see an event for this crash, the best solution is to Google the faulting module and reference FSX (i.e., ntdl.dll error fsx ctd freeze). That way you'll see possible solutions throughout the flight sim community and not just here on AVSIM. Good luck!

 

Best regards,

Jim

Jim,

 

Thanks for you excellent suggestions....I'll let you know when I can get more information from more probing.

 

Bill Clark

Jim,

 

Here is what I collected:

 

Bill Clark

 

Log Name: Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-EventTracing/Admin

Source: Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-EventTracing

Date: 5/2/2012 10:09:34 PM

Event ID: 3

Task Category: Session

Level: Error

Keywords: Session

User: SYSTEM

Computer: OWNER-PC

Description:

Session "Microsoft Security Client OOBE" stopped due to the following error: 0xC000000D

Event Xml:

<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">

<System>

<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-EventTracing" Guid="{B675EC37-BDB6-4648-BC92-F3FDC74D3CA2}" />

<EventID>3</EventID>

<Version>0</Version>

<Level>2</Level>

<Task>2</Task>

<Opcode>14</Opcode>

<Keywords>0x8000000000000010</Keywords>

<TimeCreated SystemTime="2012-05-03T05:09:34.112813400Z" />

<EventRecordID>69</EventRecordID>

<Correlation />

<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="232" />

<Channel>Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-EventTracing/Admin</Channel>

<Computer>OWNER-PC</Computer>

<Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />

</System>

<EventData>

<Data Name="SessionName">Microsoft Security Client OOBE</Data>

<Data Name="FileName">C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Microsoft Security Client\Support\EppOobe.etl</Data>

<Data Name="ErrorCode">3221225485</Data>

<Data Name="LoggingMode">5</Data>

</EventData>

</Event>

Log Name: System

Source: Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power

Date: 5/2/2012 10:09:32 PM

Event ID: 41

Task Category: (63)

Level: Critical

Keywords: (2)

User: SYSTEM

Computer: OWNER-PC

Description:

The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.

Event Xml:

<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">

<System>

<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power" Guid="{331C3B3A-2005-44C2-AC5E-77220C37D6B4}" />

<EventID>41</EventID>

<Version>2</Version>

<Level>1</Level>

<Task>63</Task>

<Opcode>0</Opcode>

<Keywords>0x8000000000000002</Keywords>

<TimeCreated SystemTime="2012-05-03T05:09:32.755611000Z" />

<EventRecordID>17214</EventRecordID>

<Correlation />

<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="8" />

<Channel>System</Channel>

<Computer>OWNER-PC</Computer>

<Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />

</System>

<EventData>

<Data Name="BugcheckCode">0</Data>

<Data Name="BugcheckParameter1">0x0</Data>

<Data Name="BugcheckParameter2">0x0</Data>

<Data Name="BugcheckParameter3">0x0</Data>

<Data Name="BugcheckParameter4">0x0</Data>

<Data Name="SleepInProgress">false</Data>

<Data Name="PowerButtonTimestamp">0</Data>

</EventData>

</Event>

Log Name: System

Source: EventLog

Date: 5/2/2012 10:09:38 PM

Event ID: 6008

Task Category: None

Level: Error

Keywords: Classic

User: N/A

Computer: OWNER-PC

Description:

The previous system shutdown at 10:07:20 PM on ‎5/‎2/‎2012 was unexpected.

Event Xml:

<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">

<System>

<Provider Name="EventLog" />

<EventID Qualifiers="32768">6008</EventID>

<Level>2</Level>

<Task>0</Task>

<Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>

<TimeCreated SystemTime="2012-05-03T05:09:38.000000000Z" />

<EventRecordID>17209</EventRecordID>

<Channel>System</Channel>

<Computer>OWNER-PC</Computer>

<Security />

</System>

<EventData>

<Data>10:07:20 PM</Data>

<Data>‎5/‎2/‎2012</Data>

<Data>

</Data>

<Data>

</Data>

<Data>244</Data>

<Data>

</Data>

<Data>

</Data>

<Binary>DC070500030002001600070014002000DC070500040003000500070014002000600900003C000000010000006009000000000000B00400000100000019050000</Binary>

</EventData>

</Event>

Hi Bill,

 

Here possible solutions for Event 41 and 6008 - http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-performance/unexpected-shutdown-event-id6008/0790ff7c-76cd-4bfe-8202-a3d0c08c49ea; http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504. It appears too that Microsoft Security Essentials is corrupted because of the abnormal shutdowns. Here's a solution to that problem but anymore abnormal shutdowns will just corrupt it again so you need to get the overheating or other problems fixed first - http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111004024039AAhdI9Z. Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

Jim

Jim,

Thanks!

Here is some more information I didn’t have time to add last night.

 

System

Processor = 3.20 Ghz Intel i7-3930 (6 Core)

Motherboard = Intel DX79TO

Graphics card = NVIDIA Quadro 600

RAM = 16 GB of RAM (unknown mfg)

 

A. ADDITIONAL TESTS TO STRESS SYSTEM:

 

I said I would runs some additional tests to see if I could get a freeze with other applications….my results. I measured the temps via Real Temp 370

 

1) OCCT 4.2.0 – I ran for an hour – PASSED

Temps Max 78 72 75 74 77 80

2) HyperPI 0.99b – I set Digits of PI to be calculated to 32M – PASSED

Temps Max 77 70 73 74 75 76

3) Unigine Heaven DX11 Benchmark 2.5 – Ran for an hour – PASSED

 

Summary – I was hoping to get a failure with these tools, but they all passed with no issues.

 

B. TEMPS ENCOUNTERED RUNNING FSX IN WINDOWED MODE:

 

Temps Max 62 55 59 58 60 62

 

Summary, these temps don’t look out of line – What do you think?

 

C. SYSTEM CONCERNS:

 

1) BIOS – this motherboard has the original BIOS version since the date of intro – release date of BIOS Oct 19, 2011 There have been 6 BIOS updates since the initial release. Some improvements that jumped out at me!

a) Five out of six new update say – Updated Processor Support

B) Set CPU voltage to 1.25V for Host Clock Multiplier 1.25x and 1.66x

c) Improved memory stability at higher memory speed

d) Fixed issue where system hangs during cycling

 

Note – I feel strongly the BIOS should be updated

 

2) Motherboard drivers – I don’t know if the latest drivers have been installed – any way to tell?

 

D. FSX CONCERNS:

 

1) Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable – this is the only version installed

2) Microsoft .Net Framework 4 Client and Microsoft .Net Framework 4 Extended

3) The FSX install is in the Program Files (X86) folder – I would not have put it into this folder

 

E. ADDITIONAL ADD-ONS TO FSX

 

1) FSX GENESIS Mesh Scenery

2) MegaScenery Southern Calif.

3) FSUIPC4 Version 4.80 (updated from default)

4) TrackIR – not turned on

 

F. SUMMARY:

 

Ideally, I would like to have the original system builder redo the Win 7 Install (wipe the disc clean and re-install). But as an another option, as a minimum, I would like to reinstall FSX and put it in a separate directory. Even better, put in a second hard drive and install FSX on that. I have a 100 + GB WD Raptor drive I could give my friend I used to have in my own system, but replaced it with a bigger drive when I ran out of space.

 

Since this is not my system, I would like to defer the BIOS flash and MB driver update to the responsibility of the system builder.

Any other comments or suggestions?

 

Bill Clark

Summary, these temps don’t look out of line – What do you think?

 

Hi Bill,

 

None of the temps look out of line to me. I assume they are Centigrade.

 

RAM = 16 GB of RAM (unknown mfg)

 

FSX can only use about 4 GB of memory. Anything above 6GB's is probably not used. See memory information at Nick N's post on Setting up FSX and Tuning it - http://www.simforums.com/Forums/topic29041.html. A 64 bit system just utilizes memory resources better than 32 bit systems. You didn't indicate which Windows 7 version was installed. Nick N is the developer of GEX and considered an FSX/Computer Guru here at AVSIM (or in my eyes).

 

Motherboard drivers – I don’t know if the latest drivers have been installed – any way to tell?

 

Check here for the latest drivers and bios for the MB - http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/desktop-board-dx79to.html. It's not necessarily important to have the latest BIOS unless it improves performance, system stability, or a critical update recommended by the manufacturer. I tried to keep the latest BIOS installed. Intel constantly updates drivers for MB's. I use 'Driver Performer' - http://performersoft.com/ to update my drivers. They have a freeware version to download. It worked so well I went ahead and bought the product. As I recall it cost about $30. There are some other programs out there that do the same but I found this one an excellent choice.

 

FSX CONCERNS:

1) Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable – this is the only version installed

2) Microsoft .Net Framework 4 Client and Microsoft .Net Framework 4 Extended

3) The FSX install is in the Program Files (X86) folder – I would not have put it into this folder

 

I agree. Those are concerns. For FSX/Acceleration and many FSX addons, you must have versions 2005, 2008, and 2010 installed. Go to this link and scroll down and you'll find the links to the other packages - http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?displaylang=en&id=3387. Since FSX is a 32 bit program, download the 32 bit versions. I have a couple of the 64 bit versions installed but they are not for FSX and were installed by another program. It won't hurt to have them too but they are not necessary. Developers install the appropriate MSV for their software or FSX addon if not found on the system. MSV's are not backward compatible. After installing, make sure you run Windows update as MSV's are updated constantly.

 

Same with Microsoft.net Framework. FSX requires Version 1 thru 4. Version 4, which you have installed, is installed automatically by Windows 7. It is not installed for Vista or XP but it is still required by those OS's. One of the things dotnet software does for FSX developers is to manage memory. The software is not backward compatible. Goto this link to download all of the other versions required (scroll down to the bottom of the page) - http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=21. Run Windows Update when installed as this software is updated frequently.

 

I agree with your summary for the most part. Reinstalling Windows and FSX will definitely give it a fresh start and it could cure a lot of problems your friend is having now. When you install FSX, make sure you start up FSX after the initial install. Let it configure things. Then you can install SP1 and SP2 or, if you have Acceleration, just install Acceleration as it includes SP1. Make sure you restart FSX after each install (i.e., SP1, SP2, or Acceleration). A 100 GB HD is not much these days for FSX as it needs breathing room for caches, etc., but it will work. I have several FSX addon and it uses about 70GB on my FSX drive and another 40GB on another HD which contains many of the large scenery programs like MegaScenery. I have my installation in the default FSX directories and have had absolutely no issues whatsoever but many people have found it is better to install FSX on a separate HD in a folder like D:\FSX. Once that is accomplished, all your other programs will 'see' where FSX is installed through the system registry and you should have no problems.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

Jim

Thanks angain Jim,

 

1) Yes, I'm aware of 32-bit apps are limited to a max of 4-GB

 

2) As to the BIOS, his i7 processor came out after the MB was introduced, and there have been a number of updates for new processors coming out. I'm just not sure if his MB bios has been updated to accomodate this newer chipset. I always keep my BIOS's up to date.

 

3) Yes, the Temps are in degrees C.

 

4) Actually, my WD Raptor drive is 150 GB, so that would be adequate, at least for a while, until he exceeds it like I did. I have a ton of ORBX add-ons that eat up real estate quickly.

 

5) I'll try these Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 and .Net updates (older versions to see if that helps) my crash situation

 

6) I'll ask my friend if he would consider having his system redone.

 

Bill Clark

Jim,

 

One more thing...............last night as I logged on to AVSIM using Internet Explorer, the system froze. I sort of considered it was an anomaly. However, it just happend again as I logged on to AVSIM.

 

There is just something "flakey" about this system.

 

Bill Clark

Jim,

 

I will be getting back a new re-install of Win 7.

 

My friend has the FSX Gold Pack, so how do I install as you suggested?

 

1) The FSX base package

 

2) SP1 (is it on disk # 1 or #2)?

 

3) Install Acelleration (with SP2).

 

Bill Clark

Can anyone help me please !!!! I have FSX the gold & deluxe editions I recently upgraded my O/s to Windows 7 64bit home premium I'm running, Intel ® Core 2 Quad CPU Q9300@ 2.50GHz with installed 8.00 GB DDR 2 SP1 AND A GeForce GT 220 ... All my add-on are windows compatible and I have installed & re-installed FSX numerous times but when I add any of my add-ons the program crashes HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!