>Please don't get defensive. My question was, "how do I make>a turn correctly" it wasn't, "why didn't eaglesoft do this or>that.">>I think it was a valid question and I've learned a lot from>the answers other people gave.Sure it was a valid question & no one was getting defensive that I can see. It was all done with "smiles", not to mention the fact that you specifically mentioned "Eaglesoft". Ron just simply explained the reason...............which even I'm interested in.L.Adamson

>Please don't get defensive. My question was, "how do I make>a turn correctly" it wasn't, "why didn't eaglesoft do this or>that.">>I think it was a valid question and I've learned a lot from>the answers other people gave.Not defensive in the least:-) :-)Though you did include our name and aircraft:-)Simply trying to add to the discussion and show why in one plane we included the turn coordinator and in the other we excluded it:-)

>G'day>99% of powered modern aircraft require NO rudder input to>maintain a blanced turn.>The turn co-ordinator is a redundant instrument in modern jet>aircraft and is generally not fitted.>All this stuff about use of rudder in turns comes from glider>flying and aircraft built shall we say in the old days.>All the best>Darren HowieUm... not quite. It's still necessary on smaller aircraft. I wouldn't say 99% of powered aircraft, because most single engine aircraft still need flown coordinated, as well as a great many light twins. Someone asked about the Cherokee Warrior; most certainly that does need attention to the turn coordinator.Nevertheless, you're quite right about jets and many larger aircraft.

Hi Ron! :-)Long time no speak.To turn your jet correctly, just turn the wheel. As with most aircraft of this type, and as stated by someone else above, rudder is rarely used in most turns. Leave the rudder for takeoffs and landings and if you lose an engine. For most turns, turn the wheel, and you will be just fine. There is no rudder interconnect with the ailerons, leave that system to the Ercoupe, which did not have rudder pedals at all!A couple weeks ago, and within 24 hours, I flew both a 737-200 level D sim, and a real Piper Aerostar. With the 737, I hardly ever touched the rudder, except perhaps when on short final, and with the Aerostar, only when I was was flying a tight pattern, with 30

Ha Ha, must agree:-) Glad to see ya back Lou! That boatride looked like a blast:-)Thanks for the input on turn coordination...our local club 150 requires only the slightest rudder input to keep the ball centered.The Baron 58 and A36 Bonanza I fly with my charter buddy requires no rudder to keep things smoothly turning:-)

Okay for the US a turn coordinator is required for instrument flyign. Dosn't matter what you are flying if you are going instrument its gotta be there. 2004 FAR/AIM pg 163 (d) 3. Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator4. Slip-skid indicatorThere is an exception to this but it is only for an aircraft that has 3 attitude instrument systems that have 360 degrees of usuable pitch and roll. So basically an aerobatic aircraft.As stated up top that by the time you get to that level you should be able to feel the plane is coordinated or not. Here is something for you to try then. Go on a flight with your instructor or friend. Put your hood on and tuck your head into your chest. Do a right shallow right turn for about a minute and then go wings level. Then go into a medium left turn for about the same time and then go back to wings level. I can almost promise you that you will not be wings level. The first rule in instrument training is to never rely on your body always trust your instruments. I think the Piper Seminole is about the only small plane I have seen that dosn't require that much rudder input simply because it has counter rotating props. Other than that all the other Pipers and Cessnas I have been in require rudder if you do a standard rate turn.

Well said Randy!:-)

LOL I am do for my CFI checkride next week. Have been studying this stuff like crazy. My wife gets mad at night because she says I am quoting FARs in my sleep and keep yelling out things like FLARE, MORE RIGHT RUDDER! :)

I am type rated in Falcon 20's (DA20) and have flown them for around 8 years and on the basic model the is an inclinmeter("the ball") mounted just below the ADI (attitude deviation indicator) that is used for coordination.However, with the yaw damper, some of the turn coordination is handled by the flight control system on the falcon 20.As far as measuring standard rate turns, a specified bank angle is used based on true airspeed which is normally around 22 degrees of bank angle with some variation that is dependent on the rate of turn.This value is published in the Falcon 20 reference handbook. But for most cases, I normally use between 25 and 30 degrees of bank with the ball centered to achieve a standard rate turn that is coordinated.It is true that there is some "seat of the pants feel" involved, but in turbulent weather, flight instrumentation is still the primary means used when flying the Falcon to determine if a turn is coordinated or not.As far as other business jets, they must have some instrumentation means for determining coordinated flight, since it is possible for the pilot's senses to "lie" to them about the flight attitude and/or coordination at times.Just my thoughts on this subject.Happy Simming!Scott :-)ATP/CFII - KCOS, in the real avaiton world!