I've noticed that a lot of small corporate jets don't have a turn coordinator. A good example is the Eaglesoft Beechjet. How are you supposed to make a coordinated turn without this instrument?

Usually by that time in someones career they should be able to make a coordinated turn by feel. Also jets tend to be more solid in turns that aren't to steep.

"Usually by that time in someones career they should be able to make a coordinated turn by feel. "Hmm, but not in a non-moving simulator. That's a good point, actually. Maybe the writers should add one to planes that don't 'actually' have it, even though it's not strictly an accurate representation of the real plane.Richard

I'm aware of a number of jet aircraft that require little or no rudder in the turns. But I have no specifics here. Guess I'll have to check into the manual................as this is a good question!L.Adamson

Hello All,Well, I can tell you this, although I never flew passengers, on a large jet, say like a 727-100, I suggest you tread very lightly on the rudder pedal for a "Coordinated Turn".I remember once when the FE went back to check the cargo and use the can . . .our co-pilot stretched his legs a tad and accidently stabbed a ton of right rudder . . . needless to say, when the FE came back into the cockpit, he was less than a happy camper.Best to all,Clay

as far as I know they hardly touch the rudders at all during standard flight.

I don't know how the different jets are rigged, but I suspect that there is some sort of "ARI (Aileron-Rudder Interconnect)" on most of them to keep the rudder coordinated in specified flight regimes.

When I did my first try-out lesson in a Piper Cherokee Warrior, I was taught not to use the pedals at all when turning. Turned out the teacher was an old Scandinavian fleet pilot and he said it is never any use to use the pedals in a turn. Not even in that Piper Cherokee Warrior?Cheers,

Hi All,The easiest way to get yourself into trouble with a swept wing aircraft is to use the rudder in turns. You will find the majority if not all civil swept wing aircraft have what is called a 'yaw damper' system. The 'yaw damper' senses deviations about the vertical axis and inputs very small amounts of rudder automatically to counter these deviations and keep the 'ball centered'. This way all turns are automatically coordinated without any rudder input from the pilots. Another reason for the 'yaw damper' is to eliminate 'dutch roll'. Most aircraft have flight restrictions on speed and altitude with an inoperative yaw damper.On the 727 and 737 the only time the pilots use the rudder is for directional control on the takeoff and landing ground roll, crosswind corrections at the flare and engine out flight.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpg

MatsThat's interesting. You hear a lot about co-ordinated turns but my instructor said the very same thing. The aircraft have been designed to need the minimum of rudder input.Also, I got a go in a B747-200 simulator at Heathrow a few years back. The FO instructor there said keep your feet off the pedals except for take-off and landing.RegardsIan

G'day99% of powered modern aircraft require NO rudder input to maintain a blanced turn.The turn co-ordinator is a redundant instrument in modern jet aircraft and is generally not fitted.All this stuff about use of rudder in turns comes from glider flying and aircraft built shall we say in the old days.All the bestDarren Howie

>When I did my first try-out lesson in a Piper Cherokee>Warrior, I was taught not to use the pedals at all when>turning. Turned out the teacher was an old Scandinavian fleet>pilot and he said it is never any use to use the pedals in a>turn. Not even in that Piper Cherokee Warrior?>>You'll use the pedals in a Warrior if needed. Depends on bank angle, turn on climbout, etc. My experience was less pedal in the Warrior/Archer than a Cessna 172. And I've heard others say the reverse! :) My kitplane (RV6A) uses frize ailerons with a short wing that induces practically no adverse yaw. For this type of plane, rudder pedals are rarely needed to keep the turn coordinated.L.Adamson

If needed in the real Beechjet aircraft we would have included it:-)Lonny Payne is a real world Beechjet 400A pilot, he did the gauges and saw no need to include the turn coordinator:-)Our Citation X does include the turn coordinator because the real CX uses it:-)Hope this helps:-)

Special systems like yaw dampers aside I think it all comes down to the factors that cause adverse yaw in the first place. In general, the effect is greatest at low speeds with high aspect ratio (long) wings. Sailplanes are a prefect example of this and need a lot of careful rudder work to fly well. When a glider going 60 knots banks 45 degrees into a tight turn, the speed of the air that the outer section of the inside wing sees is a lot slower then that seen by the outer section of the outside wing. Also, control surface deflection amounts tend to be high in slow aircraft. As airspeed goes up the radius of turn goes up the speed difference and control surface deflections are less so adverse yaw effects are much reduced. At the speeds and bank angles that a typical commercial jet flies, adverse yaw just isn't much of a factor and is easily overcome by the stabilizing forces of the vertical stabilizer and fuselage side force.TonyDigital-Flight

Please don't get defensive. My question was, "how do I make a turn correctly" it wasn't, "why didn't eaglesoft do this or that."I think it was a valid question and I've learned a lot from the answers other people gave.