Upgrading from Athlon 64 X2, IB or SB?

[Crewdog 2]

Finally moving up from my old Athlon, right as the Ivy is out and now am thoughly confused. I'm a casual simmer that's not into spending time tweaking for the last bit of OC speed, I'd just like a good, stable, fast system. Should I go with the Ivy i5-3570k or the Sandy i5-2500k?

 

Rest of system:

GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-D3H

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO

CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

Win 7

Corsair 750w PS

2x WD 1Tb Caviar Black (sim on dedicated drive)

 

Sorry, I'm on the road but I forget the GPU I'm using, but it's a decent unit, it's not in the budget to upgrade yet.

 

 

TIA,

'Dog

[AliB 0]

i5 2500K is OK, but if you have more money to spend, then get the i7 2700K.

 

Personally I don´t think Ivy is a worthy upgrade for FSX.

[Illegitimi non carborundum 4]

IMHO SB is still the best value for money. IB needs a couple of months settling in to see if it can perform better than SB The main up grade was the die shrink (hotter??), the memory controller (Accomodates higher frequency RAM) and the internal graphics upgrade. The die shrink is a bit of a worry in terms of increased heat so that's why I would wait a couple months to let the dust settle. I second what AliG says above.

pH

[ramrunner800 10]

I have to disagree with the other posters here. I moved from Sandy to Ivy last week, and couldn't be happier. The test results that Ivy Bridge systems are showing are really promising. Sandy is definitely the safe bet at this point, but every day Ivy seems safer and safer. I suspect that if you buy Sandy today, in a year or two you may really regret buying tech that was already on it's way out the door.

[Ben Cap 89]

I suspect that if you buy Sandy today, in a year or two you may really regret buying tech that was already on it's way out the door.

 

I totally agree. We as a community need to embrace the new technology and learn to live with it. LOL

 

Just because we can't go to 4.8-5GHZ with reasonable temps doesn't mean we can't go to 4.5GHZ and get 2400MHZ RAM and get nearly the same performance as a SB @ 4.8-5GHZ.

[Noel 4,571]

Just because we can't go to 4.8-5GHZ with reasonable temps doesn't mean we can't go to 4.5GHZ and get 2400MHZ RAM and get nearly the same performance as a SB @ 4.8-5GHZ.

 

That's not a very compelling reason to go w/ IB! Sounds like you really are admitting they are 'nearly the same'. If that's the case, maybe best look at the cost of IB + high end RAM + best cooling, versus SB + moderate RAM, decent cooling.

[ramrunner800 10]

That's not a very compelling reason to go w/ IB! Sounds like you really are admitting they are 'nearly the same'. If that's the case, maybe best look at the cost of IB + high end RAM + best cooling, versus SB + moderate RAM, decent cooling.

 

You have to get Sandy Bridge chips to at LEAST 4.8GHz to beat Ivy Bridge, and I don't think you're going to pull that off with many budget options. You'll need pretty much the same cooling for both chips if you want to push them to max overclocks. If you don't want to push them to max overclocks, my 3570k will go to about 4.4Ghz while maintaining very low voltages and temps. It's not til you push it past 1.25-1.3V that the temps go crazy.

 

The difference in RAM costs isn't as much as you would think. 8GB 2133mhz RAM will run you about $70USD, and 8GB 2400MHz RAM will only run you $100USD. TechMaxGuyC, with the top score in FSMark11 was running 2133mhz. The point is, you don't have to splash the cash and buy ridiculous RAM.

 

Ivy Bridge is definitely not "almost" as good as SB. The top FSMark11 score right now is an IB chip, even beating out all those 5GHz+ SB chips. As we learn more about how to tweak them, and as things like drivers for PCIe 3.0 GPU's improve, I'm sure that IB will get even better.

 

As I said before, I can't recall ever hearing anybody say, "Man, I wish I had bought last year's tech."

 

EDIT: Look here, and you will see that many users are starting to hit quite high (4.7-4.9) OC's with Ivy.

Edited June 2, 2012 by ramrunner800

[Noel 4,571]

Ivy Bridge is definitely not "almost" as good as SB.

 

To this remark I will have so say, IB surely IS almost as good as SB, however this is because we haven't defined "almost". Sure IB may have the top score, however the degree of improvement really is verging on insignificant, and I will guess is primarily in the domain of measurable only by software routines like FSMark11. I know TechMax initially perceived better smoothness, however that too is so subject, so situation dependent, it is really pure anecdote, at least until many IB users can come to a consensus that they do notice improvements in the more subjective 'measures' of performance, such as smoothness & texture update rate. A real acid test for relevance beyond the realm of bragging rights: a double-blinded human evaluation is between best setup IB v SB. Amongst enthusiasts here, I understand bragging rights matters, but truly, we're talking about pretty minor real world improvements I believe, which is why I argue it's quite reasonable to declare SB is indeed "almost" as good as IB. This is so because SB chips are so over clocking friendly, and the core architecture is very similar to IB. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be holding out til Haswell unless I have a system meltdown and have to upgrade. I have huge fun w/ FSX using some very dated hardware, enjoying smooth performance & IQ using all of the add ons the heavy hitters use here, I just have to be mindful where I'm flying & in what. I save the NGX for smaller airports, Hawaii w/ FSDT airports, etc ;o)

[AliB 0]

@ramrunner800:

It´s "shiny new toy syndrome" - nothing else, but that´s OK with me, if people would actually admit it!

The diff. from SB to IB is marginal IMO..

 

Why should I upgrade now from this?

 

Lapped and polished i5 2500K @ 4.7 Ghz -0.35 offset Volt. (Max. Volts 1.35-36)

Max. temps 65-69C with an "El Cheapo" Hyper 212+ cooler!

BCLK: 104.5 MHz

4 Gb GSkill RAM @ 1672 MHz - 7-8-7-24 1T

 

I´ll probably do like Noel, hook up an AirConditioner and really fire up the system!

 

:Just Kidding:

 

BTW: I skipped the idea of upgrading to the i7 2700K, I´ll get a better cooler instead...

[ramrunner800 10]

It´s "shiny new toy syndrome" - nothing else

 

I don't quite agree with you there. For people upgrading from SB to IB, sure, it's simply because you have money to spend, and you want whatever is the "best" hardware. IB is not a significant enough improvement to dump your well tuned SB system. It is however, an improvement, and if you're looking to build a new system like the OP, it would make zero sense to buy the older tech. A good IB system costs no more than a Sandy Bridge system, offers an admittedly marginal improvement in FSX performance, uses significantly less power, and is SIGNIFICANTLY more future proof. If you're buying a new system now, it seems like a no brainer to me.

[AliB 0]

Different opinions, strategies and wallets!

 

"Last years tech" doesn´t mean it´s outdated, far from it, look at Noel with the Q9650, and I had a Q6600 @ 3.8 before I got the SB.

 

I prefer a "clever upgrade" - and for me personally it´s not here yet.

 

New system? Ivy bridge?

 

No, I don´t like the temps, and the fiddling with the TIM to get them reasonable, it appears "backwards" to me, coming from the blazing but cool Sandy Breeze!

[dazz 69]

uses significantly less power

 

not really

 

http://www.anandtech...duct/551?vs=287

 

is SIGNIFICANTLY more future proof.

 

why? (please don't tell me because of PCIe 3.0 ) it's the same architecture, and for a die shrink + TRI-Gate the overclockability is far from impressive.

 

IB and SB are essentially the same thing. They are both equally future proof

[ramrunner800 10]

not really

 

Fair point, I didn't mean just the chip itself, but the whole system, including the GPU. If I was going with SB I wouldn't bother going with a 6xx series gpu, as without PCIe 3.0, you would probably seem the exact same (and I've seen lots of people say less) performance.

 

As far as future proofing, I think trigate will be a factor as all of these technologies mature (not very scientific, I know, but waiting around for Haswell isn't based on a whole lot of hard fact either). I doubt that this mythical 685 everyone is talking about will run as well on SB as IB. That's not to mention the impact faster RAM seems to have on FPS.

 

Like I said before, Sandy is good, and will do great in FSX. So will Ivy, and given all the factors, I personally think Ivy is the way to go if you're looking at building a new rig.

[dazz 69]

as without PCIe 3.0, you would probably seem the exact same (and I've seen lots of people say less) performance.

 

You scored 47FPS in FSMark11 with a 4.6GHz OC and 2600MHz RAM . That's in line with the SB samples. Where's the PCIe 3.0 perf boost?

 

but waiting around for Haswell isn't based on a whole lot of hard fact either

 

Most tocks bring a lot more to the table, they are new architectures after all, and if it doesn't pan out that much better, we can always skip it too. Waiting is free anyway

 

I doubt that this mythical 685 everyone is talking about will run as well on SB as IB

 

Why? because of PCIe again? sorry but I don't buy that

[ramrunner800 10]

You scored 47FPS in FSMark11 with a 4.6GHz OC and 2600MHz RAM . That's in line with the SB samples

 

The mean FPS of SB chips OC'd to 4.6 Ghz was 41.4FPS, and all but one only used 1600Mhz RAM. When I ran my RAM at 1600 Mhz I scored 42.7. All things being equal, a dead heat. But Ivy's faster RAM support makes things not equal. If you look at the SB chips that roughly equaled my score (+/- 2.0FPS), you will see that they all have OC's that are much higher, at an average of 4.88 Ghz..

 

As far as the PCIe 3.0 boost, it doesn't look like there is an FPS boost from it. I haven't done anything with it except run FSMark, b/c I'm waiting for a water cooling setup to arrive before I go hard at the overclock and do a fresh install. The things that people are saying are good, but subjective. I am looking forward to seeing it, and I am optimistic, as flying approaches in the NGX over extremely dense autogen is my favorite thing to do in FSX. I know you and alot of other folks don't buy it, but neither you nor I have tried it yet.

 

Most tocks bring a lot more to the table, they are new architectures after all, and if it doesn't pan out that much better, we can always skip it too. Waiting is free anyway

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Waiting is free. I've said time and again that the boost offered by IB (mostly coming from the RAM department), doesn't justify the upgrade from SB. But the OP said he's going to build a system, and asked if he should buy a 2500k or a 3570k. I think that the 3570 offers him the most upside, because he'll get similar performance today, and be able to squeeze more performance out of his system later with fast RAM. If PCIe 3.0 turns out to improve smoothness and autogen loading, that's a bonus.

 

Different opinions, strategies and wallets!

 

I think you've summed it up nicely.