The cooler & mobo should be here by tomorrow according to Newegg. I will not install the parts now though, because I really need my PC everyday and I can't afford loosing it temporaryly if something screws up. I also want to make sure everything important is backed up to my external drive before I format the C: drive. I'll most likely dissassemble it in a week or so. When I get there, I'll probably have another bunch of questions but for now I think I understand everything I need to!

 

As for the AppData folder, I will keep it but will uninstall old applications I don't plan on reinstalling. In fact, I might just rename it to AppData.old and copy over the files & folders I need, to save space.

 

This experience might demonstrate that reinstalling Windows 1) makes my PC faster, like new and 2) isn't as complicated/painful as I thought it was, esepcially if I can keep my users folder.

 

Thank you very much for the link, too, I'll keep that in mind when I remove FSX.

Hi again,

 

I received my parts last week but haven't gotten around to installing them though. I have a question about the H60 though;

 

I ordered it simply for space issues, as I knew a good air cooler wouldn't fit in my small case. I have another problem though. I was kind of expecting it, but the radiator is just a few mm to tall to fit under my power supply. I know you might tell me to just buy a new case, but I really like my small case and I can't afford any upgrades for now.

 

After a little online research, I see too possible options, considering the fact that clearance below the radiator (above the graphics card) is NOT an issue:

 

1) Drill 4 fan-mouting holes just below the current holes (using a 120mm template I have) thus lowering the radiator height to a reasonable distance under the PSU.

 

2) Make the current 4 holes slightly bigger (longer, towards the bottom) to make the radiator fit without touching the PSU. This is easier BUT I'm concerned it may cause vibration because the radiator won't actually be solid and screwed into place. The case will always remain stationary, so it can't fall off, but still I'm concerned about possible vibration.

 

This seems like a simple mod but before I start drilling holes into my case I figured it would ask you here first.

 

Thanks for any tips!

I'm having problems trying to visualise your case setup so a photo would help. You obviously need to mount the radiator where the fan can force the hot air directly out of the case i.e. an existing fan cutout so I would think that limits your choices.

 

I have in the past cut holes in my cases for fitting additional fans (i.e. in the side door) a tool such as this makes the job easier and neater than using a jigsaw - http://www.amazon.co...w/dp/B006Z4I73W

 

If you're going to start drilling any holes you will need to remove all your electrical components and vacuum out the case before refitting and if you're concerned about vibration then these are very good - http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16811996015

Phil,

 

In the past when I've had case space issues, I've simply mounted the radiator and fans on the outside of the case (not pretty, but functional). If the H60 is fully sealed (meaning comes all primed and ready to go) then remove the PSU -- this will be the entry point for the cooling block and lines.

 

Now grind or cut out a portion of the case (U shape) to allow water lines a place to go. Now re-insert the PSU (you may want to grommet the U shape you cut out to prevent abrasion)

 

If you have a picture (or pictures) of your case, I could show you want I mean.

 

Rob.

PieEater, thanks for the advice once again. I have included photos to help you understand what's not fitting.

 

Rob, now that's a great idea! I had thought of placing the radiator outside of the case, but I wondered where I could pass the two tubes (yes it is a closed system). The PSU hole is a good idea.

 

I might have a small problem closing the case though. It is really cheap, and as you can tell by these photos, the side panel is really badly designed, it overlaps my current 120mm fan screws:

 

 

Case from behind

 

 

Close-up the the case cover problem

 

 

The spacing problem under the PSU

 

 

Close-up on the spacing problem

 

 

 

The case itself is quite small

 

 

Thanks again everyone, the help is much appreciated.

I think because you wont be able to mount the fan where it's designed to go internally you'll introduce deadspots which will affect your cooling, so as Rob suggests I think external is the way to go, as well as his method I would also look at taking out most of the mesh around the 120mm fan blade area (leave the mouning holes though) including a small section of the perforated part underneath this for the pipework to pass through. The quick and easy way to do this would be to use a pair of side cutting pliers to snip from hole to hole but you may have access to a dremel or similar cutting tool which would allow a neater job, but as Rob says make sure the area the pipework goes through is protected. As well as allowing you to get your heatsink into the case,taking out the mesh around the fan will allow uninterrupted airflow to the radiator and also reduce noise (air through mesh). You will have to modify your side panel to allow you access to the mounting holes for the fan and to allow you to fit the fan / radiator itself. If you're mounting externally then I would have to take advice as to whether to mount the H60 fan first with it blowing air through the radiator or the radiator first with the fan drawing air through it. Though in all honesty I would probably invest in another fan and have a push pull configuration.

 

Whichever way you do it I would mount the existing 120mm LED fan as a side intake (assuming you dont already have one) so you are taking in cool air into the case and pretty much blowing it straight out through the radiator.

As well as his method I would also look at taking out most of the mesh around the 120mm fan blade area (leave the mouning holes though) including a small section of the perforated part underneath this for the pipework to pass through.

Rob recommended I pass the pipework through the PSU hole actually, mounting the radiator upside down. Do you think it would be better to mount it the right way, by removing the mesh and cutting holes under the mesh? People online say it doesn't change anything for the radiator wether it's on top or on the bottom, I'm just wandering if there are any reasons why I should place it a certain way.

 

 

You will have to modify your side panel to allow you access to the mounting holes for the fan and to allow you to fit the fan / radiator itself.

Yes, I will try to figure out a way of doing that. I'm sure it won't be too difficult.

 

If you're mounting externally then I would have to take advice as to whether to mount the H60 fan first with it blowing air through the radiator or the radiator first with the fan drawing air through it. Though in all honesty I would probably invest in another fan and have a push pull configuration.

It seams most people favor having the fan first with it blowing air through the radiator. I will keep looking though, just in case I find reasons not to do so. I'll pick up a fan next time I go buy my local computer shop, I don't really want to order another part online and pay for shipping again.

 

Whichever way you do it I would mount the existing 120mm LED fan as a side intake (assuming you dont already have one) so you are taking in cool air into the case and pretty much blowing it straight out through the radiator.

My side panel does have a set of mesh/holes to allow mounting of another fan, I think. I will set up my LED 120mm on the door once I'm done rebuild my PC, if that really can help the temperatures.

 

Thanks for your advice!!

Rob recommended I pass the pipework through the PSU hole actually, mounting the radiator upside down. Do you think it would be better to mount it the right way, by removing the mesh and cutting holes under the mesh? People online say it doesn't change anything for the radiator wether it's on top or on the bottom, I'm just wandering if there are any reasons why I should place it a certain way.

 

I actually had no thought as to what orientation the radiator was going to be fixed when I made my alternate mounting suggestion as I doubt that it is that important, although I guess you do need to try to keep the pipeworks routing as straightforward as possible to reduce workload on the pump.

If the radiator's position doesn't really make a difference, I'll see what fits best in my case when I get there.

 

For now, I have tried (and succeeded) mounting my current rear LED 120mm fan onto the side panel. It's my first time using a side panel fan so here is my question:

 

Although the fan is installed and working properly, why does my PC now sound like a King Air? I haven't unplugged anything or changed any setting, I just changed the fan's location.

See the pictures below.

 

EDIT: After a bit more testing, I've noticed the following: The buzzing only occurs when the fan is sucking air through the meshing. So I suppose mounting the fan externally would stop this problem? I don't really want to do that for a side fan though.. or should I?

 

This fan used to be set to 100% max RPM (it has a 3-way RPM controller) when it was at the rear, and it wasn't too noisy. I could hear the airflow but not the blades. I can hear the blades now, like on a prop. Should I leave it at max or set it to low? I just tested in prime95 and can't notice any difference between max and low for the side fan. Any input? Keep in mind that for now (very temporarily , I have no rear fan. I will install the H60 soon but only when I change the mobo. So for now I'm only using the side fan as an intake.

I'm guessing I would have to remove the meshing in order to stop the buzzing, but I'm not sure I want to do that because it will leave my case directly open (to fingers) on the side.

 

Thus I now understand why you recommended I remove the meshing from the back (which I will, because A) No one goes near the back and B) I would get buzzing if I left the meshing since the fan will be sucking hot air from the case to the outside. On the side panel though, the fan would be open to everything if I were to remove the meshing.

 

PS: I mounted the fan at exactly the same height as the rear fan will be (highest position for a side fan on my case). Should I leave it there or mount it lower, such as near the graphics card? 

 

Is this my problem?

 

 

The holes from close-up

 

 

Big thank you!

Edited March 8, 201313 yr by PhilH

I just wanted to mention that if this is the only fan in your case, until you fit your H60 it's going to be more effective for cooling back where it was. Actively forcing hot air out will also draw some cool air in through negative pressure obviously not as much as a fan would introduce but you get the picture, at the moment you're relying on positive pressure to force out the hot air which isn't efficient. The idea is that once you have the H60 fitted you can introduce some cool air into the case so you're not just using heated air to cool the radiator.

 

As for the noise levels, do you have a fan mounting point on the front of the case? Personally I find side intakes more effective (granted for air cooling) but a front intake may be quieter. If this isn't an option or you want to continue with the side intake then I would try mounting the fan a little way off the door by making some stand-offs and using longer bolts. When I've had this problem before I've used some thick rubber tubing (fuel line) and cut off ~5mm sections to act as vibration dampening spacers, but you could use washers or find some other way to improvise. With a single side intake fan for optimum CPU cooling I think having it where you've fitted it is going to be best as you're essentially introducing cool air from outside of the case directly to your radiator. I wouldn't have the fan running at 100% though, potentially its lowest setting would be best as you don't want to interrupt the main flow of air being drawn through the radiator, just introduce cool air to the flow, and this will also mean fan noise is less of an issue.

 

Whilst it would be nice to get some cool air to your graphics card it's coped without so far and by moving to water cooling especially with your radiator mounted externally you're eliminating a lot of the heat from inside the case so you may find it runs cooler anyhow.

I was also thinking a rear fan is more effective than a side fan for case cooling. I just wanted to see if I could fit it properly or if I would run into problems, but I'll install the H60 soon so I will have better cooling.

 

My case does actually have a front intake slot but it's for smaller fans (probably 80mm) and I don't have any. I'll leave my fan on the side, at the same height for now. The standoffs are a good idea, I'll try to see if I have extras ones with my motherboard and if they're not the right size I try to get some others.

 

If the fan doesn't have to be at 100%, the noise isn't that bad on it's lowest setting so it should do the job for now.

 

but it's exactly what it sounds like, if you wanted to know (fast forward it to 30 seconds). Looking at the comments it looks like it's a common thing.

 

Thanks for the tips! I will continue the upgrade a bit latter tonight or tomorrow. The graphics card isn't really high end and has always been okay for temps, so I'll leave the side fan where it is (at the top).

After a few days of hard work, I'm now all set up on my build. The H60 fitting fine on the exterior and I removed as much meshing as I could using cutting pliers. It's not very pretty from the inside but it works, I don't mind.

 

I ended up leaving the fan in it's side intake position. I leave it running on it's lowest setting so I can't hear the buzzing noise anymore. The CPU and GPU fans are louder anyway.

 

A part from a few USB 3.0 issues on my board, it seems to be working alright. I was able to acheive a respectable 4.6Ghz overclock on the 2500k in a few hours. I might be able to squeeze a bit more out of it when I have more time. This was my first overclock so I'm still learning. I did it while following a few guides online. I'm currently at 1.38v for 4.6Ghz. However, I was able to go a littler higher, near 4.8Ghz, but when I go there the voltage requirement is way higher. I needed a good 1.41v to keep it there. Some people online recommend against going over 1.4v, to make the CPU last longer. The temps weren't that bad with that voltage, but I still decided to keep it down to 4.6Ghz for now. 5Ghz was a bit too much, it survived prime95 for only 20 minutes (at 75 degrees C) but crashed instantly with Intel Burn Test because the temps peeked way too high the moment I started the test.

 

I have not had the time to install FSX yet but I have installed a few games I like such as GTA IV, which is a bit CPU intensive too. The CPU's temp never exceeded 59C while playing for an hour, which is pretty good for me considering it used to go up to 70C at 3.4Ghz!

 

To get back to the original topic's purpose, now that I have this hardware, if I was to upgrade again (which I won't for now, just curious) what part should I change? I'm thinking the graphics card. If that's the case, great, I find it fine for me right now.

I've been wandering how you were getting on, so thanks for the update.

I'm currently at 1.38v for 4.6Ghz. However, I was able to go a littler higher, near 4.8Ghz, but when I go there the voltage requirement is way higher. I needed a good 1.41v to keep it there. Some people online recommend against going over 1.4v, to make the CPU last longer. The temps weren't that bad with that voltage, but I still decided to keep it down to 4.6Ghz for now. 5Ghz was a bit too much, it survived prime95 for only 20 minutes (at 75 degrees C) but crashed instantly with Intel Burn Test because the temps peeked way too high the moment I started the test.

With regard to voltages this is listed as part of the product information for all K series Sandy Bridge CPUs on Overclockers.co.uk and I understand that this information was given to them by Intel;

 

- Do not exceed 1.425v core voltage, doing so could limit lifespan of the CPU

- Aim to keep temperatures below 70c underload if at all possible

- Do not overclock with BCLK, again doing so could limit lifespan of the CPU

- Recommended memory voltage is 1.50v, so make sure to run your memory at 1.50v, higher than 1.60v could limit lifespan of the CPU

- These recommendations come from OcUK and Intel, your warranty is un-affected but we highly recommend you adhere to the above to make sure your CPU lifespan is un-affected

- All Sandybridge CPU's worldwide should be run at the above or lower voltages, no higher!

 

You might find the information on the spreadsheet here interesting it lists peoples prime stable overclock speeds on their Sandy Bridge CPUs and the voltages required to obtain them - http://www.overclock.net/t/968053/official-the-sandy-stable-club-guides-voltages-temps-bios-templates-inc-spreadsheet

 

When stress testing my 2700K occasionally calls for 1.424v and my core temps hit just over 80c but because I use Offset voltage mode my CPU very rarely if ever gets that much voltage or that hot in every day useage, i.e. in FSX it is getting 1.384v and temps are in the mid 60s (with a silent fan profile). I find it encouraging that you were able to get prime to run at 5GHz so think 4.8Ghz 24/7 should deffinately be on the cards as long as you are happy to up the voltage a bit and you are using Offset rather than fixed mode.

To get back to the original topic's purpose, now that I have this hardware, if I was to upgrade again (which I won't for now, just curious) what part should I change? I'm thinking the graphics card. If that's the case, great, I find it fine for me right now.

I think you've got a decent setup and as long as you're happy with the graphics card then it should last you a good while.

Thanks for the information. I couldn't figure out why my offset voltage option was grayed out in my BIOS, but it turns out I had to remove my custom fixed voltage setting and enter ''Normal''.

 

I'm not at home right now but I did play around with the settings a bit last night. I tried using the ''Normal'' voltage for 4.8Ghz, without any offset, but that crashed me with a BSOD and a bug check reporting I should increase the vcore according to Overclockers.co.uk.

 

I then tried running it again, but at +0.015V and with LLC set to Medium-probably 3/5. That worked in both Prime95 and Intel Burn Test. I ran P95 for about 45 minutes to begin with and the temps peaked at 77C, which is fine for stress testing I suppose. The max voltage recorded was 1.416 volts with Primer95. It idles at less the 1V now, instead of idling a 1.38V like it did before.

 

I do recall seeing a 1.428V peak but I think that's when I had tried an offset of +0.025V.

 

By the way, why does Intel Burn Test give me temperatures much higher (and much faster) than P95? Right after clicking on start, I got 83C in IBT, whereas prime95 starts at around 60C and slowly increases to 70C over a good 3 to 4 minute period.

 

I tried leaving prime95 running all night but for some strange reason when I woke up the computer was sleeping (standby). I guess Windows thought it was doing nothing and put it to sleep after 30 minutes. I will retry the test tonight but I'll use the ''High Performance'' power setting on Windows, to make sure it never goes to sleep. It didn't crash though, which is good because it crashed after a few minutes when I was using a fixed voltage.

 

I pretty much leave everything on auto, except the multipler and offset voltage. I didn't touch the memory voltage but my BIOS says Auto=1.5V so it's fine.

 

I haven't tried with a lower offset than +0.015V yet, I might be able to lower my temps but I just haven't had the time. I'll see if I can confirm it's stable at 4.8Ghz +0.015V and if it is I will lower the offset a little.

 

 

As for the graphics card, I know it isn't really that great but to get anything considerably better I would have to spend a good 250$, so I'll wait until I really need it. Perhaps when the next Nvidia Series comes out. But then I'll have to choose between an SSD, more RAM or a graphics card. This thread will never end! I'll keep what I have for now, it's going to be perfect for me.

 

Thanks for all the help PieEater

 

 

Keep your offset at +0.015 and only increase it incrementally if you get stability issues. I'm going to suggest that your PC went into hybernation because Prime crashed and CPU activity ceased so you may need to go up a notch to +.020 but see what happens when you switch to performance mode.

 

IBT is designed as a CPU Torture Test and a quick way to establish stability, generally if your system can pass IBT you're ready to move on to Prime. Prime starts off slow but it will exercise your CPU like no other test, it doesn't start off in an intensive mode but works up to it, within an hour or so your CPU will start to reach higer temps. Remember though that when stress testing you are only testing for Prime and IBT stability under extreme circumstances, you may fail Prime after a couple of hours but that doesn't mean your system will ever fail in normal circumstances.

 

Keep us posted with your results. maybe look at a push/pull fan layout on your H60 to increase cooling efficency, you'll want to keep the corsair fan pusing air through the radiator as it's been disigned for that purpose but a fan on the other side helping air through might be beneficial.