HI,Last week I flew from Ezeiza (SAEZ) airport to KMIA and then from KMIA to TJSJ.1) The flight from SAEZ to KMIA was on a 777, which has individual small LCD TVs for each passenger and in one of the channels you have a moving map, which is connected to the GPS and shows were you are, distance to destination and origin, altitude, ground speed, etc.I was following the flight since it crossed Columbia and the route the AC followed was as in the picture I post below, upper left corner. I use FS Nav with all the STARs, etc and couldn't find any STAR that looked like what we did. Anyone knows if this is a STAR or just was guided by ATC and did that path because of some heavy traffic area, bad weather or any other reason?2) Jetliners landing in TJSJ Rwy 8. I live in a few blocks away from TJSJ and see ACs landing all the time. What it surprises me is that almost every jetliner landing in Rwy 8, they don't follow the localizer, but do an approach that seems more for a landing in Rwy 10, and then when they are at, say, 300 ft, and 30 seconds away from the rwy they do a turn to their left and land in Rwy 8 (you can see it in the map, lower right corner). Also I have no STAR or anything like that. Anyone knows the reason.Thanks,Leo

>I use FS Nav with all the STARs, etc and couldn't find any>STAR that looked like what we did. Anyone knows if this is a>STAR or just was guided by ATC and did that path because of>some heavy traffic area, bad weather or any other reason?Well, there could be any number of reasons for vectoring an aircraft out to the west like that. Traffic flow, bad weather, etc. The most likely reason is traffic flow. KMIA is very busy airport, but I assume you knew that already... ;)>2) Jetliners landing in TJSJ Rwy 8. I live in a few blocks>away from TJSJ and see ACs landing all the time. What it>surprises me is that almost every jetliner landing in Rwy 8,>they don't follow the localizer, but do an approach that seems>more for a landing in Rwy 10, and then when they are at, say,>300 ft, and 30 seconds away from the rwy they do a turn to>their left and land in Rwy 8 (you can see it in the map, lower>right corner). Also I have no STAR or anything like that.>Anyone knows the reason.I'd have to see the approach plates for the runway used, although I'm not fully trained on how to use them (yet). Are you sure you are not just witnessing the airliners during a crosswind landing? The nose won't be lined up with the runway until very close to the runway when they transition out of the "crab".

>surprises me is that almost every jetliner landing in Rwy 8,>they don't follow the localizerhow do you know there is a localizer to Rwy 8? If I recall the only localizer in San Juan is to rwy 10 so they stay on this localizer and then land on 8. Standard procedure over there.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

Well in FS and FSNavigator, Rwy 8 Nav freq is 110.30 and course 78. When I do myself land in TJSJ I approach Rwy 8 using that freq and course. Anyway your answer makes sense.

Regarding KMIA, yeah, could have been anything. Just caught my attention. I did that flight before in the 777 and I remember crossing Cuba from South to North without changing course over it.Regarding San Juan, I don't think it is the wind because they always do it and I don't think the wind is always crossed.Leo

>>>how do you know there is a localizer to Rwy 8?<<http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/89057.gifhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/89058.txtBut I can confirm that this indeed happens. I don't live in SanJuan, but I do rememeber waiting for a flight and looking at the approaching aircraft. It was quite fascinating to look at. I also remember our aircraft doing it when we came in to land. This was more than 10 years ago.

A couple of things worth mentioning. This approach plate is nearly 3 years old. It is highly possible it has changed since then. Also, there may be other published approaches for RWY 08 as well.

Leo,The approach that you are talking about is called Lagoon VisualApproach and is only done during the day, not authorized during night time. There is an approach plate for it. Look at the following link:http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0409/00784LAGOON_VIS8.PDFLuis Rivera

Noise abatement, maybe? The approach to 10 is along the coast, while the straight-in approach to 8 would be much more over populated land areas.

Thanks for your answers.Yes, you are right. The approach is the Lagoon Visual Rwy8. If you take a look at it, it goes almost exactly like I drew it.Does anyone know if it is because it is a visual approach that it is not listed in FSNav? Anyway I will addm it to my DB.I like that approach. It is very real since most of the airliners land using it (I see it every day through the window).Leo

Simply keeps us over more unpopulated areas, we also land on 10 a good bit of the time. In fact we ask for that as its much quicker to the gate for us at Delta. To do a long straight in approach to 8 also puts you near some terrain I believe outside of about 10 miles. The Lagoon visual is also predicared on takeoff traffic on 8, more of the airliners use it as it is longer than 10. My charts still show it as a valid appraoch as of last month. The MIA thing is easy, 90% of thier ops are to 9L/R, and 8 so your going to go to a point out about 25-30 miles west to get in line with all the other traffic. Most STAR's from the north end up out that way so no matter where you come from, you have to get in line to land.Hornit