Flight Plan Advice

[waleed 26]

Ok, so I did a flight from KSAN to KJFK  (Delta 738) earlier today, and got the plan from Flightaware.com.

 

It gave me rwy 13L  with a Lendy6 STAR after KLGA.

 

All was well, but the descent path was anything but normal.

 

After Lendy, I had to divebomb my way in, and started doing turns to try and go from around FL190 all the way in.

 

Anyone have any idea of why that is?

 

I ended up doing turns to dump height and resume over KLGA to get in, and wondered if that is the case (I hope not) in real life?

 

P.S. They seem to be using 4L right now (RadarBox24), so no way of figuring this out on my own.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Anyone have any idea of why that is?

 

This is a common problem - don't worry.

 

One thing that is nearly impossible to know from the sim side is how unique New York really is.  Because of the amount of traffic into and out of that area, they use vectors extensively.  Just prior to LGA, the controller would provide vectors and descent instructions for whatever approach is in use. Because of this, you can disregard the FMC warning that there is no DES PATH.

 

Sometimes the reason this message is appearing is that the pilot has connected the dots where the dots should remain apart. When arriving into the NY Area, you would actually continue on a heading through LGA VOR, to join a stream that actually goes around the south, to the east, and then back north, with a hook to the right to the 13s. The reason is that between EWR, LGA and JFK, this is the most optimal flow.

That being said, even though in reality the straight line path between LENDY and JFK approaches at FL190 is only 23 miles (way too close to descend from FL190 to 3000 - it's assumed you'd need roughly 60 in a jet), the actual distance is much longer, due to the longer vectors around the field. Again, this is in order to avoid and not conflict with LGA and EWR arrival streams.

In order to visualize this, go to the link below and click on ARR ILS 13L, DEP13R under the JFK section. It will show you how the flights are vectored, in general.  For a more frequently used configuration, click on the ARR VOR 13L/R, DEP 13L/R and see the additional note below.
http://www.nyartcc.org/N90Flows/

 

Additional note:

JFK never, ever uses the 13s if it can be avoided.  The approach path for the 13s interferes with LGA, which then forces LGA into 13s, which interferes with EWR and TEB.  If the wind is strong enough, they'll resort to the Parkway Visual.  If the weather gets low enough, they'll drop to the VOR/GPS 13L/R, and only if absolutely necessary will they ever go to the ILS (if you remember the delays from a few weeks ago, they were caused by JFK resorting to the ILS 13L).

 

If you're curious as to what the real world is using, you can take a look at the airport map on FlightAware, or look here: http://www.nyartcc.org/runway

[waleed 26]

Thanks for the heads up Kyle, and for the extra links.

 

I only flew in and out 6 times in a year and a half with Emirates, so mainly 31L, but did 4L once (Best landing as it gets you closer to the gate lol).

 

Lesson learned the hard way, Plan, Plan, Plan.

 

Quick plan and fly works as time is occupied by work and family, but the end result was plain ugly.

[killkenny1 22]

P.S. They seem to be using 4L right now (RadarBox24), so no way of figuring this out on my own.

Listening to ATIS/checking airport weather online before you plan for descent is one way of doing so. At least it gives you an idea which RWYs you might get.

[Steven_Caffey 23]

LiveATC has JFK's ATIS streaming now too, so you can listen to that too.

[waleed 26]

Yup, only problem is I did a quick plan and fly lol.

 

Fit right into a perfect time slot, but the ending was anything but spectacular.

 

Luckily, non of the pax can sue me.