Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

SirTommy

Help With Two Things (Before My Demo Runs Out)

Recommended Posts

Issue Number One:

 

Using the default FSX ATC works well except for when there is a lot of radio traffic.  ATC controllers don't seem to care that I have my mic keyed and that am reading back a clearance, so they just step on my transmissions and move on to other pilots.  They don't "hear" me transmitting until after I release the PTT, but by then it's often too late and my transmission gets blocked either by another pilot or by the controller.  Is there a suggestion for this?  Do I just need to reduce the traffic setting so there are fewer planes in the sky and more "room" for me to transmit?  It's not like I talk slow or anything.  In the real world once your mic is keyed people hear you transmitting and they know to wait until you're done talking.

 

Issue Number Two:

 

I've been trying to customize a Barron 58 checklist, but the cowl flaps and wing flaps are giving me troubles.  Copilot doesn't seem to understand that cowl flaps need to be "open" or "closed" and that wing flaps should be "up" or "zero" or "set" for normal takeoff.  I've tried different variations of callouts and responses, including the Barron checklist that came with the software, but the copilot just gets befuddled every time with cowl flaps.  Also, he keeps nagging me about the flaps after takeoff and I want to punch him in the nose and tell him they are supposed to be set where they are!

 

For example, with the cowl flaps I've tried:

 

Cowl Flaps -- OPEN

Cowl Flaps Open -- CHECK

Cowl Flaps 100% Open -- CHECK

Cowl Flaps -- CHECK OPEN

 

...and maybe a few more.  Copilot always responds with "I didn't get that" or tells me to make sure I have it set right, etc.  He can never tell that the cowl flaps are set properly.

 

My demo period is ending soon, and these things will likely decide whether or not I buy this software, so I would like to know if they can be addressed before I spend the money.  I want it to work because it helps with better habits for my real world flying.

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Issue Number One:

 

Using the default FSX ATC works well except for when there is a lot of radio traffic.  ATC controllers don't seem to care that I have my mic keyed and that am reading back a clearance, so they just step on my transmissions and move on to other pilots.  They don't "hear" me transmitting until after I release the PTT, but by then it's often too late and my transmission gets blocked either by another pilot or by the controller.  Is there a suggestion for this?  Do I just need to reduce the traffic setting so there are fewer planes in the sky and more "room" for me to transmit?  It's not like I talk slow or anything.  In the real world once your mic is keyed people hear you transmitting and they know to wait until you're done talking.

 

Issue Number Two:

 

I've been trying to customize a Barron 58 checklist, but the cowl flaps and wing flaps are giving me troubles.  Copilot doesn't seem to understand that cowl flaps need to be "open" or "closed" and that wing flaps should be "up" or "zero" or "set" for normal takeoff.  I've tried different variations of callouts and responses, including the Barron checklist that came with the software, but the copilot just gets befuddled every time with cowl flaps.  Also, he keeps nagging me about the flaps after takeoff and I want to punch him in the nose and tell him they are supposed to be set where they are!

 

For example, with the cowl flaps I've tried:

 

Cowl Flaps -- OPEN

Cowl Flaps Open -- CHECK

Cowl Flaps 100% Open -- CHECK

Cowl Flaps -- CHECK OPEN

 

...and maybe a few more.  Copilot always responds with "I didn't get that" or tells me to make sure I have it set right, etc.  He can never tell that the cowl flaps are set properly.

 

My demo period is ending soon, and these things will likely decide whether or not I buy this software, so I would like to know if they can be addressed before I spend the money.  I want it to work because it helps with better habits for my real world flying.

 

Thanks.

 

Hi,

 

Regarding cowl flaps.

 

It will be very easy to fix, and consider it done within a week.

 

Regarding ATC…

 

Unlike in the real world where at busy airports pilots would do their best to give others a fair share of the frequency usage, the built-in FSX ATC makes it a bit more challenging, because every pilot acknowledges every single instruction, leading to a frequency jam.

 

As you guessed, you will most likely need to keep traffic level below 60%

 

There is another option…

 

Download the excellent free utility called EditVoicePack

 

http://www.EditVoicePack.com

 

With a few clicks it is possible to speed up the FSX built-in ATC chatter. The result, more gaps for transmission.

 

The Edit will also add airline and aircraft names that aren’t part of the original FSX recorded set. You will be able to use Easyjet and the likes as call-sign and hear the controller speak the proper airline name instead of “<silence> flight number”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

Regarding cowl flaps.

 

It will be very easy to fix, and consider it done within a week.

 

Regarding ATC…

 

Unlike in the real world where at busy airports pilots would do their best to give others a fair share of the frequency usage, the built-in FSX ATC makes it a bit more challenging, because every pilot acknowledges every single instruction, leading to a frequency jam.

 

As you guessed, you will most likely need to keep traffic level below 60%

 

There is another option…

 

Download the excellent free utility called EditVoicePack

 

http://www.EditVoicePack.com

 

With a few clicks it is possible to speed up the FSX built-in ATC chatter. The result, more gaps for transmission.

 

The Edit will also add airline and aircraft names that aren’t part of the original FSX recorded set. You will be able to use Easyjet and the likes as call-sign and hear the controller speak the proper airline name instead of “<silence> flight number”.

Thanks for the quick reply.  Sounds good about the cowl flaps.  Is it also easy to get the copilot to accept that a zero flap setting is appropriate for takeoff?  BTW I'm using the default Barron as well as the Carenado Barron with equal results, if that is relevant.

 

Thanks for the edit voice pack suggestion.  I'll give that a try.  I know next to nothing about programing, so forgive my ignorance with the following question:  Is there a way to design the software in such a way that it makes FSX recognize that the mic has been keyed and thereby temporarily "pause" the AI traffic and ATC activity until after I have released the mic?  Or, is this too much to ask from FSX and the way it is coded?

 

Finally, another copilot issue to consider:  He has trouble understanding "Mixture Rich."  He keeps thinking the word "Rich" is "Rat sh**" and tells me to watch my language.  This is simultaneously humorous and frustrating.  I have to keep teling him to skip that item on the checklist.  All I want is for him to say, "Mixture" and for me to respond "Rich."  But all he hears is "Rat sh**."  :huh:  (I'm speaking as clearly as possible)  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sir T - there is something else that you can do. Your PTT input is only processed when you release PTT or it times out. I can't recall what the default timeout is, but you can set it to a very long time if you wish. This means that you can say your input with PTT pressed even though others are talking, then wait for a gap in the chatter and then release PTT. If you're lucky, your PTT input will be processed before the chatter begins again. It can be a bit hit and miss if traffic is very busy, and of course it's not exactly realistic, but it does work. I do it all the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DickB is right

 

there is an undocumented option.

 

Open "mce.ini" under C:\Users\your_user_name\AppData\Roaming\MultiCrew Experience

 

Go to the [ATC] section and add

 

PTTtimeout=20000

 

20000 milliseconds that is 20 seconds. Max value is 30000.

 

It means after you have transmitted to ATC, you can hold the PTT down for up to the time specified before your message is sent to ATC. Default (when option is missing) is 2 seconds

 

Don't forget to save the file

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the quick reply.  Sounds good about the cowl flaps.  Is it also easy to get the copilot to accept that a zero flap setting is appropriate for takeoff?  BTW I'm using the default Barron as well as the Carenado Barron with equal results, if that is relevant.

 

Thanks for the edit voice pack suggestion.  I'll give that a try.  I know next to nothing about programing, so forgive my ignorance with the following question:  Is there a way to design the software in such a way that it makes FSX recognize that the mic has been keyed and thereby temporarily "pause" the AI traffic and ATC activity until after I have released the mic?  Or, is this too much to ask from FSX and the way it is coded?

 

Finally, another copilot issue to consider:  He has trouble understanding "Mixture Rich."  He keeps thinking the word "Rich" is "Rat sh**" and tells me to watch my language.  This is simultaneously humorous and frustrating.  I have to keep teling him to skip that item on the checklist.  All I want is for him to say, "Mixture" and for me to respond "Rich."  But all he hears is "Rat sh**."  :huh:  (I'm speaking as clearly as possible)  :lol:

 

Just reply "rich" to mixture and not "mixture rich" which doesn't exist unless you type it into the checklist.

 

When a voice command doesn't exist, the speech engine is very keen to look at other speech rules trying to find a match.

 

If you don't want the speech engine to recognise those mild insults, go back to "mce.ini" and change

 

"NoBadWords=0" to "NoBadWords=1"

 

You can tell FO anytime "Stop nagging please" and he will refrain from making comments for the remainder of the flight.

 

Regarding ATC...

 

It's not that we never tried to stop ATC transmitting when PTT is held down. Unfortunately FSX (and FS9) ATC are closed modules. The FSX SDK doesn't provide means to control ATC at all.

The best part we could manage, which seemed impossible to many, is the ability to retrieve the displayed ATC options at runtime, allowing for accurate menu selection.

 

Contrary to common belief MCE doesn't just associate keyboard keys to key sentences. The FSX ATC menu has a habit of putting items in different order, therefore that approach doesn't work well.

 

To check that, change your first officer to use Microsoft Anna TTS voice, because the pre-recorded voices cannot handle unexpected text.

 

With Anna as your FO, ask anytime "what are the ATC options?", and she should be able to read the ATC window content aloud.

 

If you ask for takeoff, the option won't be selected unless it's really there.

 

Although we keep delving into the realm of FSX process trying to do as much interfacing as possible, think GSX, AES, I cannot promise if, never mind when, we might be able to temporarily suspend ATC. It's not something you can schedule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sir T - there is something else that you can do. Your PTT input is only processed when you release PTT or it times out. I can't recall what the default timeout is, but you can set it to a very long time if you wish. This means that you can say your input with PTT pressed even though others are talking, then wait for a gap in the chatter and then release PTT. If you're lucky, your PTT input will be processed before the chatter begins again. It can be a bit hit and miss if traffic is very busy, and of course it's not exactly realistic, but it does work. I do it all the time.

Thanks, DickB, I'll give that a shot.  So, instead of waiting for a gap to key the mic (like in the real world), I wait for a gap and then release the mic, if I understand you.  That would be handy when traffic is busier.

DickB is right

 

there is an undocumented option.

 

Open "mce.ini" under C:\Users\your_user_name\AppData\Roaming\MultiCrew Experience

 

Go to the [ATC] section and add

 

PTTtimeout=20000

 

20000 milliseconds that is 20 seconds. Max value is 30000.

 

It means after you have transmitted to ATC, you can hold the PTT down for up to the time specified before your message is sent to ATC. Default (when option is missing) is 2 seconds

 

Don't forget to save the file

I see.  Thanks very much for that info.  Good to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just reply "rich" to mixture and not "mixture rich" which doesn't exist unless you type it into the checklist.

 

When a voice command doesn't exist, the speech engine is very keen to look at other speech rules trying to find a match.

 

If you don't want the speech engine to recognise those mild insults, go back to "mce.ini" and change

 

"NoBadWords=0" to "NoBadWords=1"

 

You can tell FO anytime "Stop nagging please" and he will refrain from making comments for the remainder of the flight.

 

Regarding ATC...

 

It's not that we never tried to stop ATC transmitting when PTT is held down. Unfortunately FSX (and FS9) ATC are closed modules. The FSX SDK doesn't provide means to control ATC at all.

The best part we could manage, which seemed impossible to many, is the ability to retrieve the displayed ATC options at runtime, allowing for accurate menu selection.

 

Contrary to common belief MCE doesn't just associate keyboard keys to key sentences. The FSX ATC menu has a habit of putting items in different order, therefore that approach doesn't work well.

 

To check that, change your first officer to use Microsoft Anna TTS voice, because the pre-recorded voices cannot handle unexpected text.

 

With Anna as your FO, ask anytime "what are the ATC options?", and she should be able to read the ATC window content aloud.

 

If you ask for takeoff, the option won't be selected unless it's really there.

 

Although we keep delving into the realm of FSX process trying to do as much interfacing as possible, think GSX, AES, I cannot promise if, never mind when, we might be able to temporarily suspend ATC. It's not something you can schedule.

Thanks for that explanation.  I suspected there was only so much that can be done.  Still, the software does quite a lot.

 

The copilot was hearing only the word "rich" as the insult, not "mixture rich."  Originally, I had the checklist as:

 

[ ] Mixture -- RICH

 

And when I said "rich" he would be insulted and not proceed.  I would have to say "skip" so that he would move on to the next item.  Now, I have the checklist as:

 

[ ] Engine One Mixture Control Rich -- CHECK

 

Now, I can say "check" and he is satisfied, although he leaves out the word "rich" and only says, "Engine One Mixture Control"  So, it seems that the word "rich" is a word he does not know.  (I think he has grown accustomed to jet engines and has forgotten how to fly the props :Just Kidding: ) 

 

So, can I teach him this word by using VoxScript perhaps?  Or, am I misunderstanding the proper use of VoxScript?  (Haven't had time to tinker with it yet.)

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to confirm, the website says the demo is four days or 30 runs, whichever comes first.  Is this correct?  In other places I've seen people say it is 3 days or 10 days.  If it's four days, my time runs out tomorrow night, I think.  (Downloaded on July 11 at 10:23 pm EST)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to confirm, the website says the demo is four days or 30 runs, whichever comes first.  Is this correct?  In other places I've seen people say it is 3 days or 10 days.  If it's four days, my time runs out tomorrow night, I think.  (Downloaded on July 11 at 10:23 pm EST)

 

It's actually 3 days or 30 runs whichever expires first.

 

The main purpose of the Demo is to avoid impulse buy and to allow people to see if "Speech" is their thing.

 

It saves us arguing about things like accents, English language proficiency, quality of microphone, suitability of the rig etc...

 

There is no way you can check everything the app does, even after running it for a couple of months. It's massive.

 

You'd have to check every officially supported aircraft (about 20 so far), functionality with Native ATC, Radar Contact ATC, PFE ATC, interaction with GSX, AES, Voxscript capability, Voxkey capability.

 

By the way, it is the reason why even we sometimes don't notice things. I mean things like "rich" in Baron. In early days we wouldn't even allow people to have the FO for any aircraft whose total takeoff weight was under 5.7 tons.

We ended up enabling it for all aircrat following requests from users.

 

The application is quite mature, I mean crashes and things like that are extremely rare. Besides MCE runs as an external process. Should anything wrong happen to it, it could eventually die, but crucially won't take the simulator and your flight down with it.

 

We only run absolute minimum code inside the simulator process, fsInsider.dll + an ad-hoc dll depending on which aircraft is loaded at the time.

 

If we ran MCE completely inside the sim, in addition to the risk of taking the latter down, the speech engine would gobble up a significant (about 500 MB) amount of the precious limited (4 GB max) virtual address space. And all it takes is a wrong turn to a heavy scenery to encounter the dreaded out of memory condition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's actually 3 days or 30 runs whichever expires first.

 

The main purpose of the Demo is to avoid impulse buy and to allow people to see if "Speech" is their thing.

 

It saves us arguing about things like accents, English language proficiency, quality of microphone, suitability of the rig etc...

 

There is no way you can check everything the app does, even after running it for a couple of months. It's massive.

 

You'd have to check every officially supported aircraft (about 20 so far), functionality with Native ATC, Radar Contact ATC, PFE ATC, interaction with GSX, AES, Voxscript capability, Voxkey capability.

 

By the way, it is the reason why even we sometimes don't notice things. I mean things like "rich" in Baron. In early days we wouldn't even allow people to have the FO for any aircraft whose total takeoff weight was under 5.7 tons.

We ended up enabling it for all aircrat following requests from users.

 

The application is quite mature, I mean crashes and things like that are extremely rare. Besides MCE runs as an external process. Should anything wrong happen to it, it could eventually die, but crucially won't take the simulator and your flight down with it.

 

We only run absolute minimum code inside the simulator process, fsInsider.dll + an ad-hoc dll depending on which aircraft is loaded at the time.

 

If we ran MCE completely inside the sim, in addition to the risk of taking the latter down, the speech engine would gobble up a significant (about 500 MB) amount of the precious limited (4 GB max) virtual address space. And all it takes is a wrong turn to a heavy scenery to encounter the dreaded out of memory condition.

I understand.  I figured that the copilot was primarily for heavier aircraft operations (which I may delve into more).  Most of my real world flying has been single pilot corporate and flight instruction in pistons, so I'm not used to the luxury of a copilot anyway.  So far, MCE is the most realistic I have used in terms of interacting with ATC and handling the radios.  I like the fact that it does not require a word-for-word readback of a script.  The demo has been helpful for me.  And, it allowed me the opportunity to offer you the suggestions of addressing "cowl flaps" and "rich" for us piston pilots.

 

Best Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


And, it allowed me the opportunity to offer you the suggestions of addressing "cowl flaps" and "rich" for us piston pilots.

 

Thanks for that.

 

It turned out the word "rich" was never recorded. It will be in the future.

 

In fact there is a dedicated thread where people can report those glitches. We encourage everyone to contribute.

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/382405-if-you-think-you-have-found-something-thats-not-working/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites