I hope I didn't come off like I was complaining about the unprinted manual. I have no problems with that. I think most any savvy add-on purchaser these days knows not to expect that. I would think the "camp" that still demands this is now completely S.O.L across the board. I actually enjoy being able to print the PDF myself, because 1. the publisher doesn't limit themselves to save on printing costs. and 2. I get to control the quality of printing I desire. I think this particular topic is just about worn out, so I don't wish to add to it.Now, regarding the 3-tier product marketing. I wasn't complaining about the price, I think it is quite reasonable. I was simply pondering the idea of competing more directly with other fine add-ons that are popular in other segments of the market. However, I'll admit that I didn't think it through as thoroughly as the post above from dreamfleet. Those points were very valid indeed.Jordan Moore

The systems stuff I wanted in the manual was contained in the first 160 odd pages. I set up my printer to do two pages per sheet, so I actually only printed about 80 pages. Not that big a deal really. If the cost of a printed manual was included in the purchase price, it would have pushed it out my range, and I wouldn't have bought it.It's definitely a fun plane to fly. I like the ATR because it's a good fit with the flights I like to fly, IFR, but not too long. Yes, it's complex. It took me a while to really "get it", but that was part of the fun for me.

There ya' go, Ken; just check out what you think you'll "need" to have printed and print out just that part(s). :-)Ultimately we developers are always stuck between a rock and a hard place.1. Make the product too simple, and you get flamed from the 5% of the ultra-high end users who want the "real thing".2. Make the manual too small, and.....Well, you see where this is going.We cannot please everyone, we just try to provide a happy medium, and when you consider that my dinner and drinks with Eric Ernst (of 767PIC fame) tonight came to over $100, there really is not much to complain about when the manual is too big, or the product is too complex for just $34.95. At keast you get a lot for your money, even when you do pay to print out the entire manual (which you do not need to do);-)Now, imagine what we might endure if the ATR manual were too small, and the product too simple for $34.95!!!!BTW, I am not accusing anyone of complaining, but I do think it is important at times to discuss the market we are in, and the issues / decisions we face as developers. It's a tiny market sales-wise, with often ultra-high reality expectations in a product that many folks think should sell for an ultra-low price (if not for free!)Make NO mistake about it, It was MY decision to make the manual as big as it is (I could have easily chopped off 150 pages or so). Why? Well, when you consider that the real manual is $1500, I wanted to provide the most VALUE for the money when it came to the manual, not to mention the rest of the product.Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg