In the UK according to the Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1:

 

15.2.2 Unless specific procedures have been approved by the CAA, a landing aircraft shall not be permitted to cross the beginning of the runway on its final approach until a preceding aircraft, departing from the same runway, is airborne.

 

 

and

15.2.4 When aircraft are using the same runway, a landing aircraft may be permitted to touch down before a preceding landing aircraft which has landed is clear of the runway provided that:

 

a) the runway is long enough to allow safe separation between the two aircraft and

there is no evidence to indicate that braking may be adversely affected;

 

b) it is during daylight hours;

 

c) the preceding landing aircraft is not required to backtrack in order to vacate the

runway;

 

d) the controller is satisfied that the landing aircraft will be able to see the preceding

aircraft which has landed, clearly and continuously, until it has vacated the runway;

 

and

 

e) the pilot of the following aircraft is warned. Responsibility for ensuring adequate

separation rests with the pilot of the following aircraft.

 

Gerry was there a point to quoting the MATS pt 1 that I already stated? Just to clarify the 15.2.4 section you still cant use the words "Cleared" the procedure requires you to use the phrase land after the vacating (and there are some european airlines that have in their sops that they cannot accept a Land after) 

 

 

 

It clearly works for us, so I don't understand why this continues to come up.  Additionally, the important word is "cleared" as in "you've been given clearance."  The literal definition of the word is "to give authorization to," not "to clear the way," as you've implied, but that's getting a little too deep into semantics.

 

 

 Good play on words "Cleary works"  :lol:

 

In the UK/Europe it means both as in it specifically gives authorisation, but also that it is clear to do so. The word Clear is very protected in UK ATC and cannot be dropped into phraseology willy nilly, you would be even admonished for saying such things as cleared to line up.

 

I suppose the discussion on it working is dependant upon what criteria you measure it from - its clearly safe for me to ride my motorbike without a crash helmet because Ive never fallen off it. Or dependent upon what you feel is a safe margin or in fact what is then measured as not being safe - and that doesn't ultimately need to be planes banging into each other.

 

I think the reason it comes up so often is that some of the most advanced and also busiest airspace and airports around the world do it different to the USA - have a higher safety record, and generally it comes from the feedback from pilots who fly both within Europe and the the usa "phrases like it always good to feel like you back under positive control when back in Europe probably support it.

 

 

 

We clear people with anticipated separation because it works.  We don't feel that there's a reason to withhold clearance if there's reason to believe that the runway will be clear by the time you get to it.  I don't get why this is so much of an issue with people.

 

which kind of links to the limited control statement - a plane 8 miles out, with ahead of it, and another rolling down the runway - is pretty good odds isnt it that nothing will go wrong in that time! perhaps why RWSL have been so heavily invested in in the sates!

 

The issue is that when you flying a great hulking lump of metal and trying to put it down on small strip of concrete that has all sorts of stuff going on around it you kind of want to feel that its a good idea, due to the lack of ability to just apply the brakes should someone not quite do as anticipated! It be a bit like turning all traffic lights to green on a road and saying well just anticipate that by the time you get to the junction the other cars wont be there!

 

 

It isn't as Shoot-from-the-Hip-Cowboy-Western-I'm-the-New-Sheriff-in-Town as people outside the States make it out to be.

 

Hmmm having experienced it first hand - and just take a listen to live act or the numerous you tube videos, i think some may disagree. Ive got a bunch of friends learning to fly out in the US at the moment, and they all said ATC was like they all trying to be cool with their funky made up phrases and took them weeks to even get what they meant! 

 

Such as archer 003 right at E "No Delay" taxing to the ramp point 20.25

 

They thought the controller was being nice saying they wont get a delay! Not as everywhere else in the world would say - expedite

 

Anyhow not going to get into an argument about it - I find it quite funny listening to it, just hope the crystal balls are fully charged when I fly out to Phoenix next month!

 

 

Gerry was there a point to quoting the MATS pt 1 that I already stated?

 

Yes - to clarify the situation  in the UK. Also, note that I never used to word "cleared".