New build for fsx

[mrlip 56]

Hi all

 

I am hoping for some guidance. I was a massive fs2004/fsx simmer however I have been away from it for about 18 months or so. I sold my old rig which predominantly ran fs2004. However I am looking to get back into fsx and put a new system together but could do with advice on systems and where to start as im a bit out of touch. Ive built systems before so I am least ok with putting them together!

 

The system will be for fsx only and I am looking to run med to med high settings with a decent frame rate. I will be using a few payware addons - pmdg, traffic, weather, airport scenery and the odd mesh/textures. As always am looking for the best bang for buck I can get in the ever ongoing battle between budget and performance! im unsure on budget because as I said I am a little out of touch with it all. I know with fsx, processor is the all important key so was looking at the i5 4670k as I hear it OC nicely too. Or would ther be an alternative processor that offers little less performance but is considerably cheaper?

 

I was also looking at 8gb (4x2) patriot viper dd3 1600mhz ram although again not sure if there would be a better alternative for similar price. Gfx card I am really not sure where to start.

 

Any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated!

[mrlip 56]

This is what I have put together so far as the building blocks.

 

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/3dK90

 

Thoughts? Any parts that would be worthwhile swapping to save budget vs performance or vice versa?

[ryanbatc 13,125]

Video card: no get a 760 if you can.... Or 660 at the very least.

 

SSD: is that just for FSX? If you run addons you'll want a bigger one. Mine has filled up and I'm looking at a Samsung 840 Evo 500gb.

[outofphaze 4]

Like the previous poster suggested, the video card is not good.

 

If budget is an issue try to get a gtx 570 or something similar on eBay, or get a new gtx 760.

 

If the ssd is only for FSX you will be fine, unless you want to install fs global. I do agree though that you should at least get a 200gb one to make sure u don't run into space issues.

 

If its a ssd for both the os and fsx, you should get a 500gb one probably.

[ryanbatc 13,125]

I've got a 120GB mushkin... I've got about 15 GB left....  I have about 12 plane addons installed, and 3 Orbx regions, plus GEX.  I also have about 8 HD airports FB/FSDT/FT etc - I'd definitely get a 256GB at least even if FSX only.

[Noel 4,572]

 

 

Any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated!

 

Depending on your budget you may want to consider building in enough flexibility to allow you to run the other two sims vying for your attention now, Prepar3D version 2, and XPlane 64.  Both of these benefit by investing relatively more in the GPU.  I know your first premise was this was going to 'be for FSX only' but that can change once you've played around w/ the other sims.  If you're really going to use your desktop for flight simulation pretty much only, here are some thoughts:

• Pick up a single fast SATA III SSD, like the Samsung 840's.  500Gb lets you have some headroom in case you wish to dabble in the other sims.  Also, I have found there is no discernible practical penalty, and I researched this deeply w/ re to how modern SSD's work, to keeping OS & your flight simulator on the same drive.   This goes against some of the collective wisdom here, but I contest this.  I truly only use this SSD for flight simulation, I don't even access the web or email on this drive installation, so I have no need for any antivirus or other security bloatware.  I do have a 2nd older SATA II HDD in the box and boot to that for other stuff, saving downloads for flight simulation add ons to that drive.  Backing up/cloning my SSD covers everything that matters to me on one single other drive, another older HDD I pulled out of the old box.  There is very little writing to the SSD once each add-on is installed, and I have even disable hibernation to keep writes down to a minimum as there are limited numbers of write-cycles in SSDs, though this issue I understand has improved substantially.
• Both Prepar3D version 2.x and XPlane 64 can use the strong GPU, and ones w/ adequate video ram.   Put some money into the strongest GPU you can muster, one that can be SLI'd, and one that has as much ram as you can afford.   I can attest for Prepar3D all of my video ram is utilized, and I have the most possible in a single GPU currently.  Even so, users may not need 6gb but hopefully the point will be considered by you.  I wouldn't go less than 3gb.  One limitation of SLI is that you don't get access to the video ram on both cards, so I coughed up the bank for a GTX Titan, just in case.  I upgrade only every 5 years or so, so the rationalization for me is that for a very strong GPU, I'm only paying $200/year.  It's great to have the card for the other OS install for FarCry 3 which I am enjoying currently.
• Invest in the quality PSU w/ enough headroom, one that will well-support future SLI should you go there.  Prepar3D version 2 will become SLI ready most likely quite soon.
• Ram is dirt cheap.  Pick up enough so that IF you go to XPlane 64 some day, or if n when P3D goes 64 bit, you won't need to buy a new set of matched modules.   I put in 32Gb of 2400Mhz ram, and it cost lest than 8megabytes did in 1992 when I put together my first box!! and that's not even considering inflation!  Since my board supports quad channeled DDR3 I had to have modules that would all play together, so again not bad to pay for this up front since it's quite cheap by historical standards.
• I went w/ a hexacore CPU (i7 3930K), but I think that's optional compared to the above suggestions.  It runs everything well though, and XPlane 64 can exploit it some, P3D & FSX to a lesser degree for texture loading.  I went with one that over clocks well on air and it runs cool at 4.42Ghz, with very easy voltage to the CPU.   I might be able to squeeze more Ghz out of it, but by the time volts and heat go up efficiency goes out the window w/ diminishing returns.

Having tried P3D, I became hooked quite quickly and don't use FSX any longer.  Many do this, some don't, but in general the folks w/ very strong hardware seem to end up staying w/ P3D v2.x, despite it being very much a work in progress, but that's its good side too.

 

Good luck!

[mrlip 56]

Thanks for all the advice and help guys.

 

So processor wise it looks like that is ok as well as the mobo?

 

In regards to RAM, I was looking at the G.Skill ares series 1866mhz DDR3 2x4GB as it is only slightly more expensive than the original patriot I mentioned. Worth the extra few quid for the better speed?

 

WIll look into maybe getting a gfx card off ebay. A 660GTX 2GB or 560GTX? I think the 7 series may be a little out of price range.

 

In regards to HDD, I will look at a bigger SSD I think as I would prob prefer 1 drive rather than 2 seperate. Do a regular HD drive and a SSD play nicely together or is better to stick with 2 of the same type?

 

One last point, in terms of a cooler I am really not sure where to start. I will prob OC the processor slightly to get it over 4ghz but nothing too much. Is it worth buying a cooler or will stock suffice?

I know there are a lot of questions, really appreciate all your help!

[Noel 4,572]

Do a regular HD drive and a SSD play nicely together or is better to stick with 2 of the same type?

 

Sure, they play together buy I'm not sure what you are really asking.  If you decide to go the way of the conventional wisdom of putting OS on one drive and sim on another, you'll need to decide which is most important to have each on.   As I will maintain there is little to no downside of putting OS & sim on the same larger SSD.  And bonus:  you get fastest possible OS & sim-related file I/O performance over dedicating an SSD to one purpose and and HDD to the other, where you will sacrifice drive performance for either sim or OS.  I can easily afford OS on one SSD, and sims on another, but as I say, it's unnecessary and really just complicates matters.   If you happen to have an old HDD or will plan on picking up a new one, I would still maintain if FSX (or whatever sim) is the primary purpose for the box then put OS & sim(s) on one larger fast SSD on a SATA III connector, and keep it squeaky clean w/ nothing else other than maybe a few tools you'll want like temp monitoring software, FRAPS, etc, and do a whole other Win install on the HDD for everything but your sim(s).   This allows you to keep the sim environment squeaky lean, no antivirus software needed, no nothing to clutter the environment and bonus, makes for really simple clone or backups so that when you have it fully loaded you can backup for instant restore w/o having to clone two drives.  I like cloning over imaging so that in the event of failure it's plug and play until a replacement SSD arrives.  I can recommend Paragon OS to SSD Migrator software--cheap, simple, effective.  BTW, I have one 500gb Samsung 840 SSD, and have a complete FSX install w/ all of the PMDG birds, multiple FTX global & regions, mesh, tons of stuff, plus a complete Prepar3D install w/ FTXG, FTX AU, mesh, 3 add-on birds, etc and the drive isn't yet half full.  I will likely uninstall FSX unless P3D stalls in its development.

 

Here's another good example of why it might not hurt to plan for more than just FSX only.  FSX is done as far as core engine development and has been for 6-7 years.  I'm not using XPlane 64, yet, but seeing these comments always affirms planning for a different sim makes good sense and will cost less long term, arguably:

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/437414-just-blown-away-coming-into-malaga-tonightvery-very-immersive/#entry2947888

 

XPlane 64 will use all of my 32gb of ram if ever needed, where as for the 8gb you're considering that could be eaten up quickly if not today, then next year.  Same same for SLI'd strong GPUs, w/ their required PSU.

 

Good Luck!

[mrlip 56]

Just out of interest, how would this system run fsx? I know its short of what we had been discussing but was was just curious.... http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=201054243133

[Robert McDonald 167]

Thanks for all the advice and help guys.

 

So processor wise it looks like that is ok as well as the mobo?

 

In regards to RAM, I was looking at the G.Skill ares series 1866mhz DDR3 2x4GB as it is only slightly more expensive than the original patriot I mentioned. Worth the extra few quid for the better speed?

 

WIll look into maybe getting a gfx card off ebay. A 660GTX 2GB or 560GTX? I think the 7 series may be a little out of price range.

 

In regards to HDD, I will look at a bigger SSD I think as I would prob prefer 1 drive rather than 2 seperate. Do a regular HD drive and a SSD play nicely together or is better to stick with 2 of the same type?

 

One last point, in terms of a cooler I am really not sure where to start. I will prob OC the processor slightly to get it over 4ghz but nothing too much. Is it worth buying a cooler or will stock suffice?

 

I know there are a lot of questions, really appreciate all your help!

 

 

The answers you have gotten are well reasoned, but I have some suggestions:

 

1.  Graphics Card.  4GB OC GTX 770 (about $400 street less $15 rebate), recommended choices : #1-msi #2 EVGA.  GET the big VRAM - don't 'cheap out' with 2 or even 3 GB of VRAM on your vid card.  Yes, I know you are thinking FSX which doesn't benefit... but if ever you go to xPlane, you will be very very happy you have a ton of VRAM so you can enjoy tons of textures and hi-def scenery settings!!  Cannot overstate this.  You can NOT add 'more' VRAM to your card if you guess wrong and become unhappy, you will take a big financial hit trying to off the 'wrong' card and then replace it with a 'right' (more VRAM)  choice.  If you buy EVGA, suggest you buy the lifetime warranty option.  Good insurance.   Msi has a twin 'frozer' design with dual fans and cooling pipes, the most amazing video card cooling I've ever encountered, I would always choose them FIRST for that reason, unless buying a 'reference' design (the GTX Titan) which is identical across all video card manufacturers, in which case EVGA would be my choice for USA purchases because EVGA is located in California and gives excellent customer support 24x7.

 

2.  CPU    If you can afford i7, I recommend quad core minimum, 6 or more 'real' cores are better.  Intel.  NOT AMD.

 

3.  SSD - not recommended.  Instead, try the new HYBRID drives from Seagate.  They feature 8GB of SSD built right into the hard disk, and the 'rest' of the space is traditional 7200 RPM SATA III.  Over time, the drive looks are which programs load and run most often and moves those to the SSD area.  IMPORTANT:  NEVER use any kind of defragmention software on a SSD or HYBRID hard disk.  The NAND flash memory on the SSD portion of the drive does NOT benefit from moving data to be sequential, and you are putting extra wear and tear on that NAND flash memory when you defrag it!!  (Source:  Seagate tech support)

The money you save by NOT buying a SSD drive (the 2TB Seagate Hybrid is about $130 at CDW.com) will be better spent on that GTX 770 GPU.

 

4.  PSU - 750 watts or more.

 

5.  Case - Coolermaster Haf-X - the 'big daddy' of cases, super ventilation, lots of room for air and or water cooling, and will accommodate the largest of mainboards (motherboards) and video cards.

 

6.  Cooling.  Noctua DH-14.  A workhorse air cooler that is whisper-quiet.  Water cooling does not appreciably beat the Noctua in performance tests I've read, and liquids can leak, which can damage computers AND carpet.

 

7.  Memory - 16GB is a nice round number, and yes, some Ram is faster and more reliable than other brands.   You'll have to do your research.  Some of the new ram has high cooling fins that can interfere with the Noctua air cooling.  I bought low-profile memory that works well (without the huge high spreaders on the top)  (I got Corsair Vengeance Lo-Profile - very happy with it).

 

8.  Mainboard - I like ASUS primarily because of their GUI mouse-driven BIOS.  Easy to overclock.

 

9.  Sim Software - While I 'get' you love FSX, and who doesn't?  Long term investment, consider X-Plane.  The 64-bitness is exclusive to x-Plane 10.3x right now, and that's a good selling point.  Also x-Plane is well suited to multiple pcs/ multiple monitors / home-built cockpits, so as you expand your sim hardware with better control surfaces, X-Plane can make the additional hardware work seamlessly and efficiently.

 

I have 6 devices connected to my x-Plane setup, 3 are for graphics and 1 of those is the 'primary' X-plane pc (the other 2 wing pcs also are running X-Plane as slaves), plus 1 all-in-one pc for the glass cockpit, and another to run the glass cockpit server software, plus a Samsung Note 10.1 tablet to run Garmin Pilot.  All of this connected on gigabit Ethernet with fiber optic Comcast 54mbs Internet.

 

I came from FSX in the beginning, but now I must say I'm locked into X-Plane, though that may not be your personal preference.  Truthfully, the limitations of FSX -and- P3D are such that I wouldn't go back to either, though if P3D came out in 64 bits, I might be tempted.

 

Glass cockpit software:  Flight Deck Solutions "Sim-Avionics" software using x737 64-bit airplane.  

 

Hardware:

 

Throttle/Joystick :  Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog

Rudders:  Combat rudders (Saitek)

Radio Stack :  Saitek Radio Stack

CDU:  FlightDeckSolutions FMC (Pro)

MCP:  FlightDeckSolutions Jetmaxx MCP

 

Hope these help.

[mrlip 56]

Again, thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I think some of them may be a little too high spec for what I am looking for but never the less a good insight! As far as xplane, I appreciate perhaps thats where things are heading but its highly likely I will prob just stick with fsx.

 

This is where I am at now with the build -

 

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/mrlip/saved/47HY

 

Am still not sure on the ram. Stick with patriot or go with the slightly faster 1866 g skill I mentioned earlier? Also, the gfx card is a big push. May see if I can one cheaper on ebay or even a slightly less spec card? Any pointers overall?

[Noel 4,572]

There you go, some more collective wisdom coming at you.  I agree w/ Robert's whole set of ideas as well, sans the XP64 endorsement as my first exposure was perhaps too short but I was not as impressed as my expectations were.   One minor change for me would be to consider the idea of one drive only for OS & sim(s) in order to keep it completely bloat free, no antivirus software, no nothing but the lean OS & sim(s) and a few support apps as mentioned.  If you got into one large 1-2Tb hybrid w/ 8Gb of flash ram to me that assumes you'll be using the OS install for more than just your sim(s), in which case depending on how frequently you're using it the other apps perhaps some of that 8Gb may get tied up w/ more than just OS & FSX--but that could be moot too.  One other place were SSD may be better is that in your sim install and lean OS you're not doing a whole lot of write operations, and as Robert mentioned w/ regard to defragging.  Whereas for the multi-use OS on large hybrid you may be doing a bit more write operations per GB of available flash ram.   Of note, this drive:

 

 SAMSUNG 840 EVO MZ-7TE500BW 2.5" 500GB SATA III TLC Internal Solid State Drive

 

...goes for $259 right now on newegg.com

[ryanbatc 13,125]

Yeah even though FSX and I had a good run I wish I had gotten more VRAM with my gtx570 (1.28GB).

 

It's been three years since I built this but I'm finally dabbling in XP and I've found the VRAM is NOT cutting it. I have to run normal to high XP textures and the base package looks blurry. Addons are still sharp as designed.

 

$430 for a new 4 GB card... Ugh

[Robert McDonald 167]

Yeah even though FSX and I had a good run I wish I had gotten more VRAM with my gtx570 (1.28GB).

 

It's been three years since I built this but I'm finally dabbling in XP and I've found the VRAM is NOT cutting it. I have to run normal to high XP textures and the base package looks blurry. Addons are still sharp as designed.

 

$430 for a new 4 GB card... Ugh

 

Trust me, I have a friend with a 580 who just upgraded to a new 4GB EVGA 770- and he LOVES the 770.  It's every bit as important as the CPU in terms of XPlane.  Take a minute and watch some of my videos (link below my sig).  Particularly the triple-screen nightime XPlane at KSFO.  I think the proof is in the videos.  There are also a pretty good number of FSX videos up as well (to compare with).  Be sure to click the gear icon in the lower corner of the YouTube player and select 1080p HD video.

 

You're looking at triple PCs, a Titan (center) and 2 770's 4GB (wings).

 

Once you experience 180 degree Field of View in XP10- I'm willing to bet breakfast and lunch you will find it hard to go back to FSX.  Yes, it's a bit of bother moving over, and no, X-Plane isn't for everyone... but I have to admit that with the appropriate big airports added in

 

LAX

SFO

SAN

LAS

JFK

DFW

 

You can have a blast (if you're a jet pilot) and the graphics?  I am 100% satisfied. SMOOTH.  No Stutters. Did I mention the cars on the freeway?

 

Don't forget to add the free HD Textures, and buy Skymaxx for the clouds.  Use per-pixel lighting and HDR, and you won't look back...

 

The wing pcs are i5 happy meals from Sam's club (HP) with upgraded Corsair 750M power supply and the oc 4GB msi GTX 770 in each one.  Stock ram, I think 8GB.

 

As I said before, XPlane 'lives' in just ONE 'main' folder (and several sub folders), so it's cake to move it to other PCs - and it's simple to set up multi-view across the network to other pcs.

[Noel 4,572]

You can have a blast (if you're a jet pilot) and the graphics?  I am 100% satisfied. SMOOTH.  No Stutters. Did I mention the cars on the freeway?

 

Wow, amazing system!  I have to say though, SMOOTH, No Stutters, and lots of cars on the freeway all over FTX Global World, and the lovely FTX Northern California, in P3D V2.1.   Yep, it has to grapple w/ 32bit 4Gb limitation, but I've only had one so far but that was pre hot patch on 2.1, and they have yet to role out the optimization to help this fundamental limitation as much as possible.    When I run GPUz I'm seeing up to nearly the full 6Gb on my Titan going into the most complex sceneries.  I do need to give XPlane a chance again I tried it back when I installed P3D V2.0 and I really must have not given it enough of a chance having been struck with graphics and performance, however that was very much unoptimized, no research into how to make it run.  Good to have some nice stuff to replace the dead-end albeit venerable Old Lady!   And then there's Outerra on the horizon, kinda sort of.  That thing is scary nice, but impossible to really conclude where it will go or how it will run when it gets there.  I understand its a native 32bit app as well, but that would change if needed I'm sure.   I remember reading that XP 10 assigned texture loading to extra cores, but the primary difference between it and FSX for CPU loading was in assigning traffic to other cores.  Seems more could come than that but I guess it's one that runs somewhat independently of the rest of the sim so maybe is easy to implement.