What I envision XPlane 11 will look like

[Robert McDonald 167]

Hi Robert, unfortunately this is a problem with the original OSM import of the terrain data from that area and will require LR to completely re-do and 're-cut' the terrain. I've looked around at various OSM sources including SimHeaven which do have a nice city scenery for Sydney, but this only includes buildings and other objects.

 

Ben has acknowledged this in his blog some time ago and indicated it would get done at some point 'around 10.30' so one can only hope..

 

Is it all possible to modify terrain in the sim using custom OSM?

 

I would be shocked if you could not modify your scenery to solve this issue.  I know you can use WED scenery editor to set exclusionary zones so the 'default scenery' would be blocked from being drawn. I would contact the peeps over at SimHeaven and ask them. 

 

Did you ever load their overlay scenery?  (Ortho).  If you have your scenery packs.ini file configured properly, the ortho scenery should take priority over the default scenery.  It supercedes the mesh AFAIK.  

 

For example, using SimHeaven North American PLUS many of their major cities for North America, the water bodies seem to be different to me.  I could be wildly wrong, but I would point you towards them for a more immediate 'fix' while you're waiting for LR to re-cut the problem area.

[Longranger 148]

  4.  Austin Meyer clearly knows what is going to be or not going to be in every one of his flagship product release versions.  It's HIS COMPANY. 

It doesn't matter. You are talking about one special feature. He doesn't know when this feature will be rready. It is Ben's decision to declare it ready or not. In such a small company you don't have the resources for micromanagement, so developers have to manage themselves. My boss is the owner of his company too, but you have no idea how often i pulled new features out of thin air, since I implemented some features for my tests and suddenly this informations were crucial for other projects.

 

I was no friend of this long distance solution in the first place due to its severe burden on the system. In my opinion the is a much bigger demand for an API change that allows a preloading of very high distance and high distance features. But thzat's only my opinion.

 

About the DSF data for Sidney and so on. According to alpilotx Laminar has the recut DSF files for a long time, even before he really started to work on the final version of the HD Mesh 2. But  but Ben has to find a way how to update these DSF files. This could be in fact a very good reasons for man smaller 10.30 versions.

 

While the simHeaven files have their own mesh they were in fact all based on Laminars Mesh. Pilot Balu simply changed the base mesh to the HD Mesh files after theybecame available. A better idea might be: If someone would find a prouject that could offer HD Mesh data of Australia for free alpilotx would probably be interested in an HD Mesh Australia.

Or you couldtry to get on Bens nerves till he finally releases corrected DSF files.

[Robert McDonald 167]

It doesn't matter. You are talking about one special feature. He doesn't know when this feature will be rready. It is Ben's decision to declare it ready or not. In such a small company you don't have the resources for micromanagement, so developers have to manage themselves. My boss is the owner of his company too, but you have no idea how often i pulled new features out of thin air, since I implemented some features for my tests and suddenly this informations were crucial for other projects.

 

I was no friend of this long distance solution in the first place due to its severe burden on the system. In my opinion the is a much bigger demand for an API change that allows a preloading of very high distance and high distance features. But thzat's only my opinion.

 

About the DSF data for Sidney and so on. According to alpilotx Laminar has the recut DSF files for a long time, even before he really started to work on the final version of the HD Mesh 2. But  but Ben has to find a way how to update these DSF files. This could be in fact a very good reasons for man smaller 10.30 versions.

 

It's Ben's decision, sure.  But Austin would be included in the loop when it's time to release such an important fix, by virtue of that very smallness you (correctly) point out.  It's hardly 'micro management' when new release plans are mapped out, there are undoubtedly a 'list' of changes that are going into the 'commits'.  I am sure Austin reads those commits, and thus he is privy to the entire list.  He may not know exactly how each feature will be implemented within the code itself, but he undoubtedly is aware of the plans and goals of each release and beta iteration.

 

I have communicated with actual team members directly on this issue, and with Austin himself (all via e-mail, not by reading blog entries, which are subject to change).  I'm basing my posts on those emails, not on blog posts, which are forward-looking statements, but hardly cast in cement.

 

Actually, the distance-view fix DOES involve a mod to the API.  Loading the additional scenery tiles into available extra ram is brilliant, will preclude stutters and pops as the airplane is moving across the scenery and the pilot is looking out to the horizon.  FSX does a miserable job of loading distant scenery, where new scenery items like trees and buildings suddenly appear out of nowhere as the plane is flying closer and closer to objects that were once further out and are now in the closer view out of the plane.  Having the distant tiles pre-loaded into ram is an elegant solution, and takes full advantage of today's inexpensive ram options.  And ram is faster than the fastest hard disk. Also this feature has been described as user-configurable, meaning those with low ram on their system can leave the feature off, while those who spent the money to max out performance will indeed reap the benefits.

 

Otherwise all that additional ram is totally wasted!  Like it is now in FSX and P3D alike with their 32-bit VAS limit of appx 4GB MAX.  Pilots with 16 or 32 gb are wasting money if all they do is fly those 2 sims.  Once the long distance view option becomes available, you will likely see a boom in ram expansion, and rightfully so.

 

XPlane is engineered to 'scale' across multiple systems and take full advantage of available VRAM.  Why shouldn't it use the system RAM as well?  It's like the #1 reason why XPlane blows its competitors away.

[Longranger 148]

.  I am sure Austin reads those commits, and thus he is privy to the entire list. 

Not for such a feature. So close before an release. If you are nearing to the finals you normaly change to managed check-ins. Only bug fixes for existing smaller problems are allowed otherwise they are included only after discussions. Your idea that otherwise the additional RAM is not used: Not quite. Add photo sceneries HD Mesh 2 and world2xplane plus a very complex aircraft and you will be impressed how fast you can exhaust the RAM. Since you increase the number of DSFs you will also increase these files that already have a much bigger imprint.

 

Thats the general problem. In fact I expect that they will have to turn the additional DSFs off in default to avoid crashes on smaller machines. Since most of these stuff won't be used on test machines I don't really expect this as a surprise. It is more an Alpha feature that needs lots of fine tuning.

[Robert McDonald 167]

Not for such a feature. So close before an release. If you are nearing to the finals you normaly change to managed check-ins. Only bug fixes for existing smaller problems are allowed otherwise they are included only after discussions. Your idea that otherwise the additional RAM is not used: Not quite. Add photo sceneries HD Mesh 2 and world2xplane plus a very complex aircraft and you will be impressed how fast you can exhaust the RAM. Since you increase the number of DSFs you will also increase these files that already have a much bigger imprint.

 

Thats the general problem. In fact I expect that they will have to turn the additional DSFs off in default to avoid crashes on smaller machines. Since most of these stuff won't be used on test machines I don't really expect this as a surprise. It is more an Alpha feature that needs lots of fine tuning.

 

:p0504: I stand by the emails I got from the Laminar developers themselves.  Sure, Xplane being 64-bits can go above the 4GB VAS ceiling of its competitors, my point exactly.  8GB is likely too little, 16GB is likely ok in most cases, and 32GB will allow max tiles when and if the promised distance fix comes out.  Supnik showed a picture of it above the label 10.4, not 10.3, so that's my best-guess for 'when' it might happen.  

 

The idea of scale is not lost on me.  Clearly it's easier to make simple music with fewer musicians, but nothing beats a full-blown orchestra.  If a guy wants to fly the minima hardware, God Bless Him or Her.  If the person wants all the nuances, bells, whistles and eye candy, let's bring it on.  From what Ben has said, the minimalist equipment peeps will have a 'shut off option' for the tile fix for distance view.  So everyone wins.

[alulekk 3]

Well...Ben all but confirmed that the "details in the distance" is in fact delayed.

 

Just responded to my post in the XP Dev blog.

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

Great video Robert - thanks for sharing it, I could not get 32 gig of corsair ram to run on my machine - gigabyte z77x-up7 - overclock king - go figure - ended up with 16 gig of corasir platinums

[Robert McDonald 167]

Great video Robert - thanks for sharing it, I could not get 32 gig of corsair ram to run on my machine - gigabyte z77x-up7 - overclock king - go figure - ended up with 16 gig of corasir platinums

 

Hello Richard!  Thanks for the compliment- corsair has really good customer service - a couple of questions...

 

1.  Did you buy your RAM (32 gb) in one single kit- in other words, a matched set?  Also, did you consult the Gigabyte ram compatibility chart for your mobo?

2.  Did you buy performance ram?  They have different 'grades' of memory, and of course the timings vary as well.  The Corsair Platinum pieces run only 1600mhz, not the faster 1866 speed, which might be why you had the problem to begin with.  If you can revert to Corsair Vengeance 1866 MHz clock speed, I think you might have a shot at success with 32gb.

3.  If you are overclocked, are you at the absolute bleeding edge of stability?  Sometimes ram errors can occur if your overclock is being forced with additional over-voltages instead of only changing the clock multiplier.  On my main XP machine,  the moment I change any other parameter except the clock multiplier (I run 47x for 4.7 ghz), I get erratic behavior and got that with 16GB which was my original build with Corsair Vengeance LP (low profile) ram.  The new set (ordered from BooEgg) was 32GB also 1866 MHz Vengeance LP - as I have the gigantic Noctua DH-14 air cooling solution which would be a problem with the traditional heat-spreaders on most ram modules.  The LP (low profile) eliminates those towered heat-spreaders.

 

Although the 32GB Vengence set wasn't timed as fast as the 16GB set it replaced, it runs flawlessly with my 2600k CPU.  Of course both sets were 1866 MHz speed.  That 1866 speed also makes a difference in stability on overclocked systems!  The standard 1600 would never overclock well for me on my 2600k system.

 

If you're running a newer CPU than me, your results may vary.  I know the 2600k was well-suited for overclocking, whilst the next-gen i7s appear a bit more 'touchy' from what I have read.  If you bought from Corsair, they might work with you...if you decide to revisit the 32GB issue.

 

My two dell happy meals shipped with 8GB (2x4) and had 4 ram slots.  I purchased slower 32GB Corsair ram matched-sets and same deal, they run just fine, but the happy meals are not overclocked at all.  They are only to drive the left and right wing views on the 180-degree POV.  Dell said 16GB was max but 32 runs with no issues on my systems.  Some of the newer Dell XPS i5s are coming with only 2 RAM slots, that could be a problem going to 32, I think.

[Longranger 148]

Ben has in the meantime replied to questions About the view and fog system.

Since he hasn't even finished coding the new system yet, while the rest of the changes especially the new GPS

are pretty much on the right track it is very likely that his changes will be delayed for a 10.35 version.

 

It simply makes no sense to wait for this code while other systems are finished.

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

"1.  Did you buy your RAM (32 gb) in one single kit- in other words, a matched set?  Also, did you consult the Gigabyte ram compatibility chart for your mobo?

 

================================================

Hi Buddy - yes 1 kit always but a kit - enough problems without doing that lol - called gigabyte and they said it was the board which was a z68 so I bought a z77 - same problem I think I even sent ram back for new kit same stuff but no luck - no biggie - tackle that another day when I can get 32gig of platinums - they are excellent

 

 

2.  Did you buy performance ram?  They have different 'grades' of memory, and of course the timings vary as well.  The Corsair Platinum pieces run only 1600mhz, not the faster 1866 speed, which might be why you had the problem to begin with.  If you can revert to Corsair Vengeance 1866 MHz clock speed, I think you might have a shot at success with 32gb.

 

===========================================================

 

Yes I bought the vengeance 1866 speed ram - tried it at 1600 and 1866 - no go - right now I am running rated speed 2133 on my platinums - which seem to be doing well - but having an issue sometimes the computer starts cold and restarts trying 1.1 thru 1.2 on the cpu v core to see if that straightens it out - not the ram as it did this at 1600 and 2133 - so more to come on that

 

3. Sometimes ram errors can occur if your overclock is being forced with additional over-voltages instead of only changing the clock multiplier

 

===============================================

 

I have tried just the multiplier and the cold start problem has persisted - I am running 4.2ghz OC which should not be a problem at all - check my pc specs should not be doing this 

 

4.If you're running a newer CPU than me, your results may vary

 

===========================================================

 

I am running a 3770k and a my last cpu on that 68 motherboard was a 2700k and both are having this cold start problem - has only done it a few times now on the new machine - actually just did it when I got home so I lowered the vcore down from 1.16v to 1.100v and see what happens

 

==================================================

 

Sounds like you know your stuff for sure Robert   :good: 

 

I followed this over clock tut to the "T"  -  I usually just use the multiplier method but for some reason these last two motherboards I get this cold start reboot issue so I tried this OC method in the video and has worked well except a for a couple of restarts - the poor mans OC I was having a lot of these start problems - hoping its just the right voltage on the cpu core - thanks for all the help, really appreciate it.

 

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/gigabyte_z77_overclocking_guide/9

[Robert McDonald 167]

"1.  Did you buy your RAM (32 gb) in one single kit- in other words, a matched set?  Also, did you consult the Gigabyte ram compatibility chart for your mobo?

 

================================================

Hi Buddy - yes 1 kit always but a kit - enough problems without doing that lol - called gigabyte and they said it was the board which was a z68 so I bought a z77 - same problem I think I even sent ram back for new kit same stuff but no luck - no biggie - tackle that another day when I can get 32gig of platinums - they are excellent

 

 

2.  Did you buy performance ram?  They have different 'grades' of memory, and of course the timings vary as well.  The Corsair Platinum pieces run only 1600mhz, not the faster 1866 speed, which might be why you had the problem to begin with.  If you can revert to Corsair Vengeance 1866 MHz clock speed, I think you might have a shot at success with 32gb.

 

===========================================================

 

Yes I bought the vengeance 1866 speed ram - tried it at 1600 and 1866 - no go - right now I am running rated speed 2133 on my platinums - which seem to be doing well - but having an issue sometimes the computer starts cold and restarts trying 1.1 thru 1.2 on the cpu v core to see if that straightens it out - not the ram as it did this at 1600 and 2133 - so more to come on that

 

3. Sometimes ram errors can occur if your overclock is being forced with additional over-voltages instead of only changing the clock multiplier

 

===============================================

 

I have tried just the multiplier and the cold start problem has persisted - I am running 4.2ghz OC which should not be a problem at all - check my pc specs should not be doing this 

 

4.If you're running a newer CPU than me, your results may vary

 

===========================================================

 

I am running a 3770k and a my last cpu on that 68 motherboard was a 2700k and both are having this cold start problem - has only done it a few times now on the new machine - actually just did it when I got home so I lowered the vcore down from 1.16v to 1.100v and see what happens

 

==================================================

 

Sounds like you know your stuff for sure Robert   :good: 

 

I followed this over clock tut to the "T"  -  I usually just use the multiplier method but for some reason these last two motherboards I get this cold start reboot issue so I tried this OC method in the video and has worked well except a for a couple of restarts - the poor mans OC I was having a lot of these start problems - hoping its just the right voltage on the cpu core - thanks for all the help, really appreciate it.

 

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/gigabyte_z77_overclocking_guide/9

 

 

Hiya Richard!

Naw, I don't know much.  I learned by doing.  My ASUS P8P67 PRO Motherboard has been ok, and I'm satisfied.  I don't have issues with cold starts, and I tried using the auto-configuration in the UEFI BIOS, but that didn't work as expected.  On -my- board, only the clock multiplier works.  I'm glad you're happy with the RAM you own, clearly you are ahead of me with newer chipsets and CPU.  I'm dying for dual CPU in a desktop, now THAT would be crazy!  If only, and if only the desktop OS would support such a thing.  Of course you can buy multi-cpu SERVER mobos, but then you're stuck running Windows Server, which is neither CHEAP nor aimed at GAMING.

 

Cheers, bud.

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

"Naw, I don't know much.  I learned by doing.  My ASUS P8P67 PRO Motherboard has been ok, and I'm satisfied."

 

Never had luck with an Asus board - so I steer clear - many have but not me   

 

" I'm dying for dual CPU in a desktop"

 

I had a dell workstation with two I7 chips in it - so it can be done on windows 7 - machine is for 3d product modeling and rendering at my place of work - the machine was a Dell Z-820 - DUAL XEONS - you might find it interesting - I think they paid 6,000 for it but would be much cheaper now. So yes you can have that setup on a regular windows 7 ultimate install - but may not be the bang for the buck you might think - do your homework on that - take care Robert

[Robert McDonald 167]

"Naw, I don't know much.  I learned by doing.  My ASUS P8P67 PRO Motherboard has been ok, and I'm satisfied."

 

Never had luck with an Asus board - so I steer clear - many have but not me   

 

" I'm dying for dual CPU in a desktop"

 

I had a dell workstation with two I7 chips in it - so it can be done on windows 7 - machine is for 3d product modeling and rendering at my place of work - the machine was a Dell Z-820 - DUAL XEONS - you might find it interesting - I think they paid 6,000 for it but would be much cheaper now. So yes you can have that setup on a regular windows 7 ultimate install - but may not be the bang for the buck you might think - do your homework on that - take care Robert

 

 

Yeah, you're right, Rich.  I am going to wait for Intel to release 8 real cores CPU.  Now THAT would be something!

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

"Yeah, you're right, Rich.  I am going to wait for Intel to release 8 real cores CPU.  Now THAT would be something!"

 

There you go Robert - its only money right   :yahoo: 

[Robert McDonald 167]

"Yeah, you're right, Rich.  I am going to wait for Intel to release 8 real cores CPU.  Now THAT would be something!"

 

There you go Robert - its only money right   :yahoo: 

 

Computers are funny beasts.  A million years ago, about 1980 or so, I paid 4K for a 286 machine, which was a complete dinosaur.  The hard drive was minuscule, the ram nearly non-existent, I think maybe 256mb or some such, and a black and white monitor.  It ran DOS.  Boy, was I thrilled.

 

Someday the machines we pay all the money for now will be the subject of a hearty laugh.

 

Reminds me of the early days of the wild west, when people drove their wagons across the prairies.   Likely they were PLENTY proud of THOSE WHEELS, back in the day!

 

Cheers!